No Iterative Attacks in D&D

[Veril]

How would you handle the loss of combat options based on attacks, such as disarm, sunder, and trip? You're removing the ability to perform multiple of these in a round, or even one of them coupled with a regular attack.

I think that disarm, sunder and trip are completly crap ways to fight, they aren't D&D the way I want to play. The rules make it way too easy to do this. Same with grapple. It should be better to hit someone with a weapon than to trip them up.

Cheese. and people who use them are cheesy.

 

[Flynn]

Veril,

Here's a copy of the spreadsheets I used for my analysis. You are free to look over the results as you wish, but you'll find that the iterative attack percentages you're throwing about aren't a true mathematical representation of the odds of each being successful. Also, I have included one with actual damage values for review as well. I'm not guaranteeing that the spreadsheets are correct, but I think they are.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Baby Samurai]

Now, if you are going to go with the D20 Modern approach to Defense bonuses (where the bonus adds to AC in addition to the armor bonus), then you should use D20 Modern numbers,

Could you be so kind as to provide me with a link to the d20 Modern Defence bonuses?

 

[Baby Samurai]

Cheese. and people who use them are cheesy.

On a bed of Stilton, topped with a healthy dollop of Gruyere.

 

[Flynn]

How would you handle the loss of combat options based on attacks, such as disarm, sunder, and trip? You're removing the ability to perform multiple of these in a round, or even one of them coupled with a regular attack.

Granted, the character could still perform them, but that would be their attack for the round.

That's their only standard action (all attack actions become standard actions, if that helps). The goal is to limit the number of rolls per person per round, so that combat goes more quickly and you can move on with the rest of the adventure. For feats that allow a follow-up action, such as Improved Trip, you have a number of choices for implementation:

1. Drop the feat, or that part of the feat.
2. Allow it to work as standard D&D.
3. Limit the extra attack in some form or fashion. (I charge an action point, but that's just the Grim Tales style creeping in to my new rule mods.)

Obviously, I use option 3. YMMV, of course.

Hope that helps,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

Could you be so kind as to provide me with a link to the d20 Modern Defence bonuses?

MSRD: http://www.durman.net/sailcat/d20msrd/index.htm

Check under Defense for a description of how things add together.
Check under Basic Classes to get a list of values based on a class-by-class basis. (You'll find that there are three different Defense advancements.)

Also, as a helpful hint, you'll find that AC values can reach some very high values at the early levels, before BAB gets high enough to balance them out. I limit the amount of Defense bonus by the Max Dex Bonus value of the armor worn, to keep AC values reasonable.

Hope this helps,
Flynn

 

[Flynn]

Finally, if this helps, here's an interesting take on alternate grapple rules that you might consider converting as you see fit:

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3503114&postcount=2

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[Baby Samurai]

MSRD: http://www.durman.net/sailcat/d20msrd/index.htm

Check under Defense for a description of how things add together.
Check under Basic Classes to get a list of values based on a class-by-class basis. (You'll find that there are three different Defense advancements.)

Thanks, I was being lazy.

 

[Plane Sailing]

moved to house rules forum

Cheers

 

[Veril]

Veril,

Here's a copy of the spreadsheets I used for my analysis. You are free to look over the results as you wish, but you'll find that the iterative attack percentages you're throwing about aren't a true mathematical representation of the odds of each being successful.

I've taken a quick look at the sheets. Interesting. I'm not sure that I agree with all the asumptions in them though. My maths as I posted was very much quick and dirty - an approximation. It also includes feats - which do affect the overall % calcs, especially the to hit %'s

Generally I expect fighter types to be using a D10 not a D8 weapon. That change in average damage moves things from .75 to .9, which is much close to the 1pt per base attack bonus.