No iterative attacks with natural weapons?

[Celebrim]

"Umm, you do realize that the "kreynolds" who posts here is not the Sean K. Reynolds who is the Sage. Look at his .sig, he tells you that himself."

Since I'm illiterate and unable to read his sig, I was also unable to read his handle and tell who he was. This strange resemblence to erudition and intelligence that happens when I type something in the keyboard is the result of the blind punching of keys. Feel free to ignore the fact that dispite my inability to read or write, I still make a lot more sense than you do just as you are willing to ignore anything else that doesn't conform to your world view.

 

[kreynolds]

Since I'm illiterate and unable to read his sig, I was also unable to read his handle and tell who he was. This strange resemblence to erudition and intelligence that happens when I type something in the keyboard is the result of the blind punching of keys. Feel free to ignore the fact that dispite my inability to read or write, I still make a lot more sense than you do just as you are willing to ignore anything else that doesn't conform to your world view.

LOL

 

[Epametheus]

Note that elementals DO get iterative natural attacks. They're one of the rare exceptions, though.

 

[Crothian]

Note that elementals DO get iterative natural attacks. They're one of the rare exceptions, though.

Slam attacks are the lone exception. Anything with slam attacks get the iterative attacks.

 

[0-hr]

A monster with 2 claw attacks can make two grapple attacks. Basically, you can make as many grapple attempts in a round as you have attacks.

But a mind flayer with 4 tentacle attacks (and 4 tentacles) only gets one grapple check in a round? What's with The Man keepin the flayer's down?

 

[kreynolds]

But a mind flayer with 4 tentacle attacks (and 4 tentacles) only gets one grapple check in a round?

No. The monster description specifically states that the Mind Flayer gets 4 tentacle attacks. This means that the mind flayer can attempt to start a grapple 4 times. Attaching the other tentacles and extracting are different.

What's with The Man keepin the flayer's down?

The Mind Flayer isn't being kept down, my friend. A Mind Flayer follows the standard rules: 4 tentacles, thus 4 attacks, thus 4 grapple attempts.

 

[0-hr]

Ok, so a mind flayer can make 4 grapple attempts in a round. But it can only make one "attach 4" attempt or one "extract" attempt in a round even those these actions are resolved with a grapples checks.

I guess consistency was too much to hope for...

Still, I would have sworn that I heard the number of grapple attempts a beast got was based on their BAB without regard to number of appendages. Must have been some other game system.

 

[kreynolds]

Ok, so a mind flayer can make 4 grapple attempts in a round.

Yes.

But it can only make one "attach 4" attempt or one "extract" attempt in a round even those these actions are resolved with a grapples checks.

Yes.

I guess consistency was too much to hope for...

Consistency has nothing to do with it. Attaching it's tentacles and using it's extract ability is not a standard grapple attempt, thus you don't treat it like a standard grapple attempt, thus you don't use the standard grappling rules even though there are 4 tentacles.

Your problem is with the Mind Flayer's special abilities, not with the rules themselves. But I would like to point out that if special abilities never deviated from the rules in any way, they wouldn't be very special.

Still, I would have sworn that I heard the number of grapple attempts a beast got was based on their BAB without regard to number of appendages.

That's true for a human, elf, etc.

 

[Caliban]

From the D&D FAQ:

Can a creature with two natural weapons, say two claws,
make two grapple attempts in a single round? Could a
character using the rules for fighting with two weapons pull
off the same trick? Exactly how many grapple checks can
you make each round?


You can make one grapple check for every attack your base
attack bonus normally allows. The number of weapons you use
doesn’t affect the number of grapple checks you can make.

For example, a dire ape, an animal with 5 Hit Dice, has a base attack bonus of +3, so it can make only one grapple check each round despite its three natural weapons. Note that when you opt to deal damage with a grapple, you deal subdual damage according to your size, not your natural weapon.

For example, a dire ape (a Large creature) deals 1d4 points of subdual damage with a successful grapple attack, plus its Strength bonus of +6.

Note that creatures with the improved grab special attack can use their natural weapons in a grapple. Note also that monk characters deal their unarmed strike damage with successful grapple checks. Monks and creatures with improved grab are formidable grapplers.

The normal grappling rules assume that the attacker uses
pretty much her whole body in the attack. (When you grapple,
you wrap your arms and maybe your legs around the foe.) You
can grapple while using a shield, but the shield's armor check
penalty applies to your grapple check.

If the creature has the improved grab special attack, it can opt to use only one appendage to make a grapple attack, but it suffers a -20 penalty to its grapple checks if it does so. A character also could use the -20 option, but as you point out, the character also would have to use the two-weapon fighting rules. See Table 8-2 in the Player's Handbook, and remember that a character's own hands are considered light weapons.

The two-weapon fighting penalties apply to both grab
attempts and any grapple checks that occur after successful
grabs. The -20 penalty applies only to grapple checks. For
example, a character who has both the Two-Weapon Fighting
and Ambidexterity feats would suffer a -2 penalty to each grab
attempt and a -22 penalty to any grapple check she makes after
a successful grab.

On her turn, the character can stop making separate grapple
checks with each hand and instead use both hands on one
opponent; if the character does so, neither the two-weapon
penalties nor the -20 apply to grapple checks she makes that turn.

 

[0-hr]

Ok, so we're back to a mind flayer being able to do any one of the following in one round:

4 tentacle attacks

or

2 normal grapple checks

or

1 special attack*

*the "attach 4" or "extract" maneuvers, each of which is resolved with a grapple check. That right?

Seems like there might have been a more intuitive way to do this.