No Light spell balance

[Li Shenron]

IIRC, there is a spell in BoVD called No Light which is a cantrip for Wiz/Sor and orison for Cle/Dru. I think the spell is exactly the negative version of Light, that is same duration,range,etc. and it is weaker than any other light/darkness spell except Light.

At first it looks fair it is a 0th level spell, because it does NOT prevent Darkvision: if used to hide from opponents, it's then less useful. But if you are a Dwarf, Half-Orc or Drow spellcaster, isn't it MUCH BETTER to have a darkness which does not prevent YOURSELF from using your Darkvision?

I was planning to play a Drow Rogue/Wizard in a city-based adventure, and it would be a too good tactic to use No Light against humans, then whack in and kill them with sneak attacks easily.

Do you think that if you are in a No Light area you can still see outside of it?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Do you think that if you are in a No Light area you can still see outside of it?

Inside the sphere, without Darkvision, you're screwed.

Fantastic spell

Against PCs, it's not too powerful... just about every caster carries a Light spell, and then all you need is a sunrod, even if you're underground.

But I sprang it on mine the other day, and it took them a couple of rounds of getting nailed in close melee by gnolls before they figured it out...

-Hyp.

 

[Li Shenron]

Re: Re: No Light spell balance

Fantastic spell

As a matter of fact, I was planning to ask my DM if I can substitute the Drow spell-like ability Darkness with No Light. It SEEMS bad to give up a SLA for a lower-level spell, but it will be far more useful, even if it is easy to negate.

Anyway, if you are in dark and cast Light, you can see "inside" the area, but obviously not outside. So, do you think that if you are in daylight and someone casts No Light around you, can you see FROM INSIDE the area what's happening outside?

I think you can, just like being in the dark corner of a room lets you see the other corner with the candle, but you can't see what's with you in the dark corner. This would tone the spell a little down, since at least my victims may easily follow the light to get outside in the next round.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: No Light spell balance

Anyway, if you are in dark and cast Light, you can see "inside" the area, but obviously not outside. So, do you think that if you are in daylight and someone casts No Light around you, can you see FROM INSIDE the area what's happening outside?

I still say no. You're still in an area of magical darkness that normal light cannot illuminate.

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Re: Re: Re: Re: No Light spell balance

I still say no. You're still in an area of magical darkness that normal light cannot illuminate.

-Hyp.

I disagree. It's as "dark" as a torch... so if you have a torch in the area, it should be just as if there would be no spell neither torch. If you would have seen something without torch and spell, then you should see something with both of them.

Edit: duh... darkness or darkness spell? Darkness spell probably. Then you would need a spell of equal level to cancel the darkness effect...

 

[Hypersmurf]

No - if you have a torch in a No Light spell, it's still dark.

If you have a bonfire, a dozen sunrods, and a giant magnifying glass focussing the rays of the sun... it's still dark.

Unless you suppress the No Light cantrip by overlapping it with an Evocation [Light] spell of 0 level or higher, it's still dark. If you do suppress it, then non-magical light works.

If you're underground, with a No Light spell and a Light spell, it's still dark until you light a torch.

-Hyp.

 

[Li Shenron]

I don't own the BoVD, can anybody check the spell description? Does it "suppresses light" or "sheds/radiate darkness"? Let's use capital words for spells and non-capital for generic words, ok?

It's interesting to try to figure out how this tiny little spell may be working, it is useful also to check if everybody uses darkness spells - like Darkness - in the same way.

Isn't it that you cast No Light on an object (just like Light) and if you cover the object you "cover the darkness"? But at the same time I don't think you, standing by the object, produce some kind of "reverse shadow" of light, that would be very silly

So I suppose the spell suppresses light and does not work like a negative Light spell...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Area: 20 foot radius spread. It's immobile.

Creates an area of darkness.
Normal light sources cannot illuminate, but darkvision works.
Light and No Light suppress each other where the overlap (like Daylight and Darkness).

-Hyp.