D&D 5E No low level Stun spells?

[Xeviat]

Can you please define what you mean by "stunned"?

If you mean "target loses an action" that's one level, and if you mean "target loses their action and has defensive penalties" that's another, and "target loses their action via paralyze which makes every hit into a crit" is higher.

I mean the stunned condition:

Stunned (from the PHB)
A stunned creature is incapacitated, can't move, and can speak only falteringly.
The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.

 

[Xeviat]

In terms of role it fills, isn't that just Sleep?

No, because Sleep is a little worse than Paralyze which is a little worse than Stun which is worse than Incapacitate.

Also, the sleep spell isn't "save or fall unconscious"; the sleep spell has an odd HP mechanic.

Command and Tasha's Hideous Laughter are both 1st level spells. Tasha's is clearly better when the goal is to incapacitate a target. But Command has other features, which makes it useful (you can make someone move, for instance). Tasha's is save ends. Tasha's also makes the target prone, which comes with almost the same defensive penalties as Stunned.

 

[Satyrn]

I mean going from "Stun: saving throw, 1 round" to "Stun: saving throw, concentration 1 minute, save ends": You believe that's a big enough change to go from 1st level up to 5th level? At a 50% save failure rate, save ends is only going to last twice as long (I just spent the last hour fumbling around on excel trying to figure out the rate for higher and lower saves; it's been a long time since I've done a math class).

Ah. Well I didn't consider that.

I'd have to say that if you think the level difference is too large, then either (a) the 1 round stun belongs at 2nd level, or (b) hold monster is too high a level.

I still don't think the multiround stun's lack of a bit of autocritting is worth a drop in level. But if you do, then making it 1 level lower than hold monster would make sense.

 

[Xeviat]

Ah. Well I didn't consider that.

I'd have to say that if you think the level difference is too large, then either (a) the 1 round stun belongs at 2nd level, or (b) hold monster is too high a level.

I still don't think the multiround stun's lack of a bit of autocritting is worth a drop in level. But if you do, then making it 1 level lower than hold monster would make sense.

On paper, I do feel like Hold Monster is a bit high. Banishment does the job of getting rid of the creature for some time, but there's no "save ends", it just lasts a minute. Also, you can't beat on the Banished target while it's away. Since Hold Monster has a "save ends" component, maybe it could exist side by side with Banishment. Banishment gets rid of them for a minute, guaranteed; Hold Monster is less guaranteed, but it has offensive support capability.

 

[ThunderDM]

My wizard has an aversion to killing and uses this 2nd level spell. It's not exactly a stun but it works in much the same way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5Z-9dCBaTA