D&D General No More Baldur's Gate From Larion: Team Is 'Elated'

Team pivoting to next big release instead.

astarion-1688033271552.png

Bad news for Baldur's Gate fans--It seems that Larion is out of the Baldur's Gate business. CEO Swen Vicke has announced that Baldur's Gate 3 is not getting any expansions, DLC, or a sequel. Patches and fixes will still continue, however, including cross-platform mod support.

"Because of all the success the obvious thing would have been to do a DLC, so we started on one. We started even thinking about BG4. But we hadn’t really had closure on BG3 yet and just to jump forward on something new felt wrong. We had also spent a whole bunch of time converting the system into a video game and we wanted to do new things. There are a lot of constraints on making D&D, and 5th Edition is not an easy system to put into a video game. We had all these ideas of new combat we wanted to try out and they were not compatible."
-Swen Vicke​

Vicke confirmed this at a talk at the Game Developers Conference, and said that Larion Studios wanted to make its own new content rather than license IP from another company.

He also clarified that a Baldur's Gate 4 was still possible, but that if it happened it would not be made by Larion. Larion is already working on its next big release.

According to IGN, Larion has started work on some BG3 DLC, but it was cancelled.

"You could see the team was doing it because everyone felt like we had to do it, but it wasn’t really coming from the heart, and we’re very much a studio from the heart. It’s what gotten us into misery and it’s also been the reasons for our success."
-Swen Vicke​

According to Vicke, when the BG3 team found out that they would not be making more Baldur's Gate content, they were 'elated'.

“I thought they were going to be angry at me because I just couldn’t muster the energy. I saw so many elated faces, which I didn’t expect, and I could tell they shared the same feelings, so we were all aligned with one another. And I’ve had so many developers come to me after and say, ‘Thank god.'"
-Swen Vicke​

 

log in or register to remove this ad

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I guess this means the Icewind Dale sequel rumors, spurred on by Larian being out recording the sounds of ice creaking at night, aren't happening.

While I wasn't exactly hankering to deal with Drizzt, it would have been nice to potentially have spent some time knocking around in a dwarf kingdom.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Seems a waste.

You have the game and rules engine (and a lot of assets) there already, and "only" need to create new stories and some new assets.

I know it's not trivial but surely easier than doing story AND rules engine at the same time?

License it back to WotC so they can hire someone to create DLC. Surely the DLC would be a money maker given the player base already there.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
Seems a waste.

You have the game and rules engine (and a lot of assets) there already, and "only" need to create new stories and some new assets.

I know it's not trivial but surely easier than doing story AND rules engine at the same time?

License it back to WotC so they can hire someone to create DLC. Surely the DLC would be a money maker given the player base already there.
We don't know that hasn't happened. That said, Hasbro/WotC hasn't exactly demonstrated a good command of video games -- Dark Alliance, anyone? -- so I don't know that anyone in-house would be stepping up to do this or has the skill set to have it succeed.
 

You're asking me to remember stuff from the beta of a game 4 years ago, which changed repeatedly and rapidly over that period, so I hope you will be okay with me being vague - people have been finding screenshots from their own EA periods and being astonished by what's in them lol.

But some examples:

1) There was an encounter with a dying Mind Flayer not long after you got off the ship - it's still there - but it had a bunch of fisherfolk around it, being mind controlled for no clear reason. In very early EA, there were only lose/lose outcomes to this. Whatever you did, something horrific happened, usually you having to kill all the fisherfolk, regardless of whether you stopped them being mind-controlled. And the companion characters had some pretty weird and callous comments about it. This left a pretty horrific impression, and not in a good way - it operated as a sort of mission statement - "Everyone is bad and everything will end badly", especially as it was essentially the first non-companion encounter outside the Nautiloid. Over the course of EA, they toned this down twice, first making it so there were some grey outcomes, but they required multiple DC15+ saves/checks to get (not easy at L1/2) - and at this point you couldn't save game in dialogue, note - but it was still pretty bad. Then by lowering the DCs but you still had a lot of rolls. Eventually they removed it, and put the fisherfolk down the map, but still had a pretty hostile encounter with them, then they removed that too, because it really wasn't serving any purpose.

2) The Nautiloid itself used to be longer and more detailed, and also used to be much more likely to involve you being forced to a bunch of innocent mind-controlled people by accidentally or even unavoidably aggro'ing them, which felt pretty bad. When they shortened this to make restarting less tedious, they took I think all of that out (NB knocking people out was either not in the game or so well hidden almost no-one knew about it, at this point), and now you only fight devils (or optionally a couple of Intellect Devourers).

3) All the companions were bigger jerks. Shadowheart was intensely rude and unpleasant (not "sassy" as I have seen people try to retcon - just unpleasant and sneering like she is to Lae'zel early on), and the only way to get past this was to act like she was your boss and you were the world's most brown-nosing employee. I hate to use the term "simp" but basically unless you took that attitude on literally everything she said, she acted like she hated you. You could do a bunch of things to help her, but unless you also went along with 100% of her nonsense, she hated you. They dialled this back over time, particularly in one big patch were they added reactivity to you saving her from the pod - that was the big turn-around. Gale was prissier and more superior. Lae'zel was... mostly the same but had no context - you couldn't get nearly as much info about WHY she was behaving like this. Karlach wasn't in the game for a lot of EA, and only meetable not possible to recruit for the rest - but she was pretty different - a lot angrier and bitterer - like her darkest moments in the real game were basically the norm (a lot of that is from data-mining to be fair). Wyll was a different character with a different, and frankly grosser and weirder story, where he was the one lying to people, and Mizora was kidnapped (?!?!?!). Astarion was similar to Lae'zel in that he changed less, but lacked context for his behaviour. He was also more aggressive and callous, and didn't have anywhere near the number of funny lines.

4) All the NPCs were bigger jerks. This is a bit hazier but virtually every major NPC gave you a harder time, through a combination of higher DCs on any checks you needed to make, more checks, and just being less pleasant when you helped them, with a lot of "Hmph I didn't ask for your help"-type stuff - I think even Zevlor gave you quite a lot of attitude back then.

5) Again more hazy but a lot of quests and situations which have a positive outcome now simply didn't have one back then. They just had different bad or at best grey endings, and again due to the DCs for checks being higher, and there being more checks, even those tended to be more difficult to get.

6) Mechanics-wise, NPC enemies and spells in general tended to do a ton more with creating surfaces (fire, ice, water, etc.) - like stuff now where you only get a surface effect with special items or interactions with objects in the world, spells just did and NPC enemies often had grenades, arrows, barrels, etc. that made surfaces - more so than they do even on Tactician now. Compounding this, the surface effects were much more powerful - I forget how much damage "Burning" did, for example, but it was definitely a lot more than 1d4/round lasting for at most 2 rounds (assuming you got off the surface). The actual D&D rules were significantly less well-implemented (you can sort of trace this from the patch notes at least), and they tended to get overwhelmed by the wild plethora of surface effects that went off everywhere, like even blood was a major issue! Larian got such negative feedback here that they started toning it down pretty rapidly here. NPCs also tended to have more "hard" CC spells and higher damage spells at lower levels, like it seemed like Larian weren't quite ready for how few HP player characters had in D&D - the game wasn't exactly harder though because the surface effects were much easier for a player to exploit than NPCs. People complained a lot that it felt like DOS3, gameplay-wise, not BG3, and they were right to.

7) "Daisy" vs The Guardian - I won't go into too much detail because I'm not sure how much of a spoiler thread this is, but there was a totally different approach to the tadpoles, which seemed to be more like "Daisy" (who you created, like you create the Guardian now, but they asked "who do you desire" instead of "who protects you" or w/e) was trying to tempt and manipulate you into using and where using any at all was a big deal (also the tadpole powers were class-based), and it seems like there was a separate unseen voice trying to convince you not to (who in retrospect might have been Orpheus). Overall this was the one bit which wasn't more grimdark, but it was pretty different and seemed to be pointing to a later game where the main question would be "What will you do for power/to win?", which is definitely not where the game actually went in the release version. The whole song "Down by the river" is for/about Daisy, note. Also you gained power with the tadpole by using its power, not eating other tadpoles.

I think that's enough for now lol.
Thanks.
 

While I would have loved to see a Larian BG4 . . . I don't find the news disappointing at all. Refreshing, actually.

We're going to get another banger of a game from Larian, it just won't be a D&D game.

And there's a good chance we'll eventually see a BG4 . . . although I wouldn't want to be the studio following on the heels of Larian's masterpiece.

I would love to be that studio, if I had the money behind it to do it right.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Seems a waste.

You have the game and rules engine (and a lot of assets) there already, and "only" need to create new stories and some new assets.

I know it's not trivial but surely easier than doing story AND rules engine at the same time?

License it back to WotC so they can hire someone to create DLC. Surely the DLC would be a money maker given the player base already there.

Well it means someone else can also mess up your game. Eh bugs in DLC breaks your game.

Some studios have farmed out dlc work to others but WotC atm doesn't have the required talent or reputation.
 

Obsidian are owned by MS, so are essentially "too big" unless the MS execs and the ex-MS Hasbro execs are such friends that they can get a really good deal through.


They don't have any studios who could do this, and they couldn't do it themselves.


CDPR? They're far too big. The reason they did the Cyberpunk 2077 licence is that they are so much more powerful than R. Talsorian Games, who are basically, a handful of people who long ago had a moderately successful TT RPG, that RTG has no power over them, and definitely DID NOT get a percentage of gross revenue (unlike WotC), and they've got an exceptional and direct working relationship with Mike Pondsmith who seems to be keen to basically say "Yes! Cool!" to everything CDPR wants to do. They didn't need to use a licence at all - they did it because the devs actually loved Cyberpunk 2020's vibe. But they make games that sell a lot more copies than BG3 has yet - Witcher 3 has sold over 50m, for example.


I forgot the reason, because it wasn't really animated until much later on, but otherwise what I said was correct.

As for "you could shoot it from a distance", no, not day one you couldn't. You're retcon'ing stuff that became possible with the later updates to the encounter into always being there. Understandable given how many changes there were over time.

Now you're being extremely factually inaccurate and deeply misleading.

You're quoting a deeply obscure FR novel, that people (including you) only know about or have heard of because of that ridiculous and out-of-character line, and how poorly it fits with the FR, and acting like it's representative of the FR. It's not. The FR is flatly not a grimdark setting. Insisting that it is means that essentially every single fantasy setting is "grimdark" and thus the term is meaningless, and obviously that's not the case. The FR novels definitely have some edgelord stuff in them, especially some of the '90s and early '00s ones, but that's not representative of the setting as a whole, and lot of what happens in the novels is simply not canon, so pretending it is is bizarre behaviour and misleading.

As WotC themselves said, unless it's actually in an FR book published for 5E (and that does not include novels), you cannot assume it is still canon. I will say the 3E FR did, like a lot of 3E stuff, lean definitely more that way, but the 4E and 5E versions do not. Nor did the 2E one.

Rivellon, on the other hand, is fundamentally grimdark, particularly as of DOS1 and DOS2. It hits countless grimdark and crapsack world tropes in both of those (arguably DOS1 is more crapsaccharine, but that's not a very useful trope imho). You could argue that prior portrayals only had it as "dark fantasy", not grimdark, and I'd kind of agree - to- a point - but there's no possible argument that DOS2 isn't maximally grimdark/crapsack world and doesn't have some of the most edgelord companions ever seen in any RPG.

I agree with a lot of what you say except the part about stuff in the novels not being canon, the contract with Ed Greenwood states that novels are canon and can't be decanonized, that perhaps the most unique thing about FR, it can never be rebooted, its a forever living setting.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I agree with a lot of what you say except the part about stuff in the novels not being canon, the contract with Ed Greenwood states that novels are canon and can't be decanonized, that perhaps the most unique thing about FR, it can never be rebooted, its a forever living setting.

Got a copy or I'd that scuttlebutt?

Only thing I've heard about it is that it has to be in print and I'm not 1000% sure about that.
 


- Mechanically, the Solasta 5E games are more fun than DoS 1 & 2 and the Owlcat games. However, the writing is worse than any of them.

Almost finished with Solasta Crown after finished BG3 and really enjoying it. Enjoying it as much as BG3 but in different ways.

It's better than BG3 in :

1) 5e rules implementation -- attunement, no busted haste, real flying, etc.
2) keeping things decently challenging in combat until maybe level 7-8 or so. I'm finding 9+ pretty easy though.
3) love the traveling! Could even be improved on but great concept to impart a bigger world
4) interface is better for the most part
5) grids and line of sight markers!
6) refreshing short side quests - go here, fight 1 battle, get something, done!

Overall I find the overall story fine if generic- find the 5 parts of x.

The dialogue and site based story flow is really bad. Sometimes I fight a bunch of things and then someone pops up and talks to me as if I’m not trashing their home with some dialogue that implies I’m suppose to know what’s going on….

That said, it has kind of grown on me by looking at it as if this is a bunch of 12 year olds playing D&D , with bad banter and a first attempt at piecing together a story!
 

Remove ads

Remove ads

Top