Olaf the Stout
Hero
Quantarum said:
This cracked me up!
Olaf the Stout
No more cone shaped powers?
This cracked me up!
Olaf the Stout
capn_frank
First Post
As Fundin pointed out, there are cones in D&D minis version 2.
Here is the exact wording from the Glossary on page 43 (the templates they describe on on page 41):
A roughly triangle-shaped area for some [Close] attacks (see Attack types on page 26). There are two cone templates provided in this rulebook, representing two cone sizes (small and large), You can photocopy these and cut them out.
Each cone template has three possible origin points (shown by arrows pointing out). When using a cone, place the template so that one of the origin points is at a corner of a square in the acting creature's space. The squares in the cone template must aligh with the squares on the battle map. Creatures in the cone's area are affected by the attack, so long as there is line of efffect to them from the origin point.
small:
X
XX
XXX
large
X
XX
XXX
XXXX
XXXXX
XXXXXX
Here is the exact wording from the Glossary on page 43 (the templates they describe on on page 41):
A roughly triangle-shaped area for some [Close] attacks (see Attack types on page 26). There are two cone templates provided in this rulebook, representing two cone sizes (small and large), You can photocopy these and cut them out.
Each cone template has three possible origin points (shown by arrows pointing out). When using a cone, place the template so that one of the origin points is at a corner of a square in the acting creature's space. The squares in the cone template must aligh with the squares on the battle map. Creatures in the cone's area are affected by the attack, so long as there is line of efffect to them from the origin point.
small:
X
XX
XXX
large
X
XX
XXX
XXXX
XXXXX
XXXXXX
Varianor Abroad
Explorer
The revised cones will be easier to execute. So that's okay. Removing them for the sake of removing them? Eh. That would be too big a change. Now, what are they doing to fix line effects on diagonals. (And please don't say "removing them". )
)
Reaper Steve
Explorer
A couple things:
1) DDM 2.0 has cones, but in the radio blog Shoe stated there are no cone effects in the PHB. I'm just pointing that out because I take that to mean that we won't see the new DDM cones in 4E, at least as first.
2) The DDM cones are part of my issue with the 1:1 diagonals. Notice that you can't aim your cone directly forward to catch an opponent directly in front of you, as well as those on either side of him. No, one must cast a cone to the left or to the right, but never directly on. Yet another effect of the Far Realms warping the diagonals. Madness!
Ia! Ia! Diagonal Ftagn!
Of course, they could just have another cone template for aiming directly forward (like the previous edition,) but that is another instance where speed of play has won. Sure, I understand 'analysis paralysis' it takes some people forever to choose the optimum template and the optimum placement for it, but eliminating the most obvious cone pattern and placement option is not the answer to that problem.
Now, D&D 4E may have a better replacement.
Something like a ranged burst that also has line effects. After determining the burst pattern, draw lines from the widest corners back to the caster. Any squares those lines pass through, or that are wholly between those lines, are also affected.
I would like that much better than any template... even for DDM 2.0!
(maybe aintan can work us up some example pics! )
1) DDM 2.0 has cones, but in the radio blog Shoe stated there are no cone effects in the PHB. I'm just pointing that out because I take that to mean that we won't see the new DDM cones in 4E, at least as first.
2) The DDM cones are part of my issue with the 1:1 diagonals. Notice that you can't aim your cone directly forward to catch an opponent directly in front of you, as well as those on either side of him. No, one must cast a cone to the left or to the right, but never directly on. Yet another effect of the Far Realms warping the diagonals. Madness!
Ia! Ia! Diagonal Ftagn!
Of course, they could just have another cone template for aiming directly forward (like the previous edition,) but that is another instance where speed of play has won. Sure, I understand 'analysis paralysis' it takes some people forever to choose the optimum template and the optimum placement for it, but eliminating the most obvious cone pattern and placement option is not the answer to that problem.
Now, D&D 4E may have a better replacement.
Something like a ranged burst that also has line effects. After determining the burst pattern, draw lines from the widest corners back to the caster. Any squares those lines pass through, or that are wholly between those lines, are also affected.
I would like that much better than any template... even for DDM 2.0!
(maybe aintan can work us up some example pics!
)
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Gundark said:
Why should people assume they are adding the right elements to counterbalance things or that it will make sense when we see the whole package.
If you see something you don't like I think it is far more odd to think that they have some magic solution up there sleeves that turns stupid into gold than to think that aspect of the game will end up stupid.
And this is just dumb. For people who don't use mats they just lose out, its the suck for them. For people who do use mats I guess a small element of the game is slightly easier, but you still lose out on cool options. And besides back when I used mats it took all of 5 minutes to cut out of construction paper a bunch of spell templates, and this was back in 3e where enlarge spell was cool and lines and cones grew as you leveled.
dema
First Post
yep.
So far I like the wide rectangle option, and the you choose your 3, 4, 6 etc squares and draw back to the caster option suggested for cones (anything with in the lines gets hit.)
I was just a bit afraid that cones would be gone. I mean I love burning hands, cone of cold and prismatic spray spells, but without cones where do we go? I thought about bursts taking over cones as they would be easier. So the firecube and line of cold may just work better for the "game" and not any simulation we attempt to get out of DND.
I love that 4e sounds like it will be as easy to wing as old DND, 1e and 2e were. I already preordered the gift box with the 3 cores on amazon so I'm sold, just a little concerned.
I almost got a chance to playtest the new edition but something fell through, so all I can do is read like the rest of you.
So far I like the wide rectangle option, and the you choose your 3, 4, 6 etc squares and draw back to the caster option suggested for cones (anything with in the lines gets hit.)
I was just a bit afraid that cones would be gone. I mean I love burning hands, cone of cold and prismatic spray spells, but without cones where do we go? I thought about bursts taking over cones as they would be easier. So the firecube and line of cold may just work better for the "game" and not any simulation we attempt to get out of DND.
I love that 4e sounds like it will be as easy to wing as old DND, 1e and 2e were. I already preordered the gift box with the 3 cores on amazon so I'm sold, just a little concerned.
I almost got a chance to playtest the new edition but something fell through, so all I can do is read like the rest of you.
Raith5
Adventurer
am181d said:
That would use too much common sense!
WOTC really needs to think outside of the
Whats wrong with using feet rather than damn squares?
Haffrung Helleyes
First Post
Ainatan, I really appreciate you posting all of these diagrams!
BTW, from your diagram it looks to me that, if your opponents are directly 10' or 15' in front of you in a 15' wide line, there's no way to get them all in the cone. Which does seem pretty wierd.
Ken
BTW, from your diagram it looks to me that, if your opponents are directly 10' or 15' in front of you in a 15' wide line, there's no way to get them all in the cone. Which does seem pretty wierd.
Ken
ainatan said:I think you could, but I'm really not sure.
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