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D&D General No More "Humans in Funny Hats": Racial Mechanics Should Determine Racial Cultures

Faolyn

(she/her)
Nothing. Just as nothing stops me from changing things I dont want, or using a product as provided. This misses the point.

I want something defined.
Why? Why do you need something to be defined? You're willing to rewrite what you don't like, but aren't willing to choose between, or combine, two or four possibilities. I honestly don't get this.

Because a PC is a member of a species. Floating simply makes no sense to me, unless as per Humans (and Half Elf in 5e) you are hanging your hat on being the 'adaptive' race option. Outside of floating, I want my settings to be able to apply at least some kind of logical sense, and unless Halflings are chimps (questionable as the Chimp argument is anyway) then they would have that bonus on a racial level.
And I don't see that as logical. What's logical is to have racial traits. Halflings get Nimble, which means all halflings, whether they're very strong, very smart, or very dexterous, are Nimble; and Lightfoot halflings are also Stealthy. Forcing all halflings to put +2 in Dex and have Nimble and maybe Stealthy is not only redundant, but boring as well.

You just say "I want this," but never why. Why is it so important that a halfling have Nimble, possibly have Stealthy, and also must have +2 Dex but never +2 Wis or +2 Cha?
 

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Scribe

Legend
Why? Why do you need something to be defined? You're willing to rewrite what you don't like, but aren't willing to choose between, or combine, two or four possibilities. I honestly don't get this.
Because I want something to base any changes or choices off of, I want some basic framework of world building, or something to slot into/update for my own setting. I want something to change, or accept. I want something defined, or else why am I not simply using something else I've already created?

You just say "I want this," but never why. Why is it so important that a halfling have Nimble, possibly have Stealthy, and also must have +2 Dex but never +2 Wis or +2 Cha?
Because that +2 is a mechanical representation of racial attributes. Not the ONLY thing, not the BIGGEST thing, but A thing.

The 'why' has been said a million times, you just refuse to see it.

I want MORE things that can be different between race options, not 2 or 3 special rules like Wizards is pushing us towards.


Its part of the whole, and as long as its a mechanical lever, why would it not be part of the composite which defines the container of rules/lore/art, which is 'halfling'.

Its a piece of what makes Halflings what they are. A halfling heritage with +Wis or +Cha instead? Sure go nuts. +2 Str? Nonsense just look at them, it makes no sense.

Then again 'within the scope of human size' lol. Maybe in 5.5 Halflings will be 5'10, 185lbs.
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
I honestly don't think you can have realistic evolution in a D&D world. I'm not even sure you could have Lamarkian evolution in a game world. There's too much physics-breaking. Because it's not just the PC races, but all the monsters as well.

It does not have to be all the time and for everything, but you can mix the fantasy approach with a bit of evolution.

It'd be a fun experiment, to see how close you could get to the game without breaking reality.

There is no such thing as reality, it's mostly fantasy anyway, the only thing that you can break is suspension of disbelief if you go too far one way or the other, but more balanced ways can be fun.
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
I want MORE things that can be different between race options, not 2 or 3 special rules like Wizards is pushing us towards.

Yes, I very much would like very strong race options, like the ones that you have in Runequest/Glorantha, including fantastic powers as well as different stats, because it's only logical that, as a race, you can't graft as much muscle and leverage power on a halfling as on a goliath. The problem is people translating their real-life prejudices (and hatred of prejudices) into the game, but creating decidedly non-human races should solve that.

IMHO, WotC is being pushed into a corner that reduces the differences and it's not the right way to go because it can only lead to boring uniformity.
 


Lyxen

Great Old One
OR

Ooooor...

They could offer more interesting options and differences than ASIs.

Like they're doing.

No, they are not, they are creating a mish-mash where everything goes so that they can't be accused of discrimination. And seeing that stats are both technically, but also visually and in terms of roleplay some of the strongest element of the game, depriving yourself of racial ASI is a huge mistake. Note that only WotC is being pushed in that corner because of the visibility of D&D. Runequest has no such problem despite the fact that the differences of stats are mcu much stronger. For example, an aldryami ("elf") has an intelligence of 3d6+6 and a trollkin ("goblin") an intelligence of 2d6+3.
 

Why? Why do you need something to be defined? You're willing to rewrite what you don't like, but aren't willing to choose between, or combine, two or four possibilities. I honestly don't get this.
I'm not sure what's not to get. A toolkit is versatile, sure, but it's also work by default. Worse than that, it's about as flavorful as instant ramen with half a spice packet. The DMs (and possibly players depending on how much authorial control the DM is asserting over the setting they're running) have to add all the spice themselves, and when you're preparing dozens of dishes or more, that adds up.

Super defined races(and monsters) may not always be what you want, but they're always something, and you're just as free to edit to suit your tastes as you are with a toolkit, but if you just need something to spark the imagination, defined is going to do that far better than not, even if it sparks your imagination in how you don't like the definition.

And I don't see that as logical. What's logical is to have racial traits. Halflings get Nimble, which means all halflings, whether they're very strong, very smart, or very dexterous, are Nimble; and Lightfoot halflings are also Stealthy. Forcing all halflings to put +2 in Dex and have Nimble and maybe Stealthy is not only redundant, but boring as well.
It's very logical unless you just don't want there to be differences between races at all. Even a slower than average adult cheetah will be faster than a hippo after all. And taking away ability score bonuses and other features won't make them less boring. If anything, I'd want to go the other direction and add more defining features given the considerably greater number of playable races that WotC has introduced. But the point of racial ASI isn't to make - in this particular example - all halflings dexterous. It's to make halflings, on average, more dexterous than other races that don't have the same ASI. It's perfectly possible to have a clumsy halfling, a halfling that never skips leg day or a halfling mastermind. But the +2 Dex means that there are fewer clumsy halflings than dwarves, and fewer halfling Schwarzeneggers than orcs.

If a player wants their character to be one of the exceptions, they'll need to spend the points(or choose the appropriate array, or hope for a good roll, or whatever) to get there. Or their gaming group can decide they don't like the assigned ASI and just allow it to be put wherever. That's still a choice a group can make regardless of what's written. But taking away the defined ASI in text is limiting the options for those who prefer defined races.

You just say "I want this," but never why. Why is it so important that a halfling have Nimble, possibly have Stealthy, and also must have +2 Dex but never +2 Wis or +2 Cha?
The reason is as simple as can be: because it supports the base premise of wanting greater definition to distinguish each race from each other.

Personally speaking, my big complaint is that D&D wants to bake its cake once and eat it several times over. If it were up to me, I'd ditch the idea of having an "official" campaign setting represented in the big three books at all. Make the PHB and MM pure classic fantasy, stereotypes on full display. Orcs are evil raiders, elves are stuck up tree huggers, all that crap. The PHB should give new players a clear and simple "this is what you're getting with this race." The MM should allow an inexperienced DM to thumb to an page, get an instant idea of what a particular monster is and how it would fit into an encounter or campaign. Simple, hyper defined, and hitting exactly the notes you'd expect of a classic fantasy setting.

Then I'd take each published campaign setting, and put out an "Ecologies and Societies" book that largely forgoes the mechanical crunch except to point out variants or where they differ for that specific setting, instead focusing more on behavior, regions settled, societal roles, etc. Where the MM might paint orcs in a way befitting a black and white antagonistic role, the E&S would instead go into detail about different tribes (if they're even organized as tribes in a particular setting), the customs they might have, the relationships they have with their neighbors, etc. Going into that kind of setting specific detail isn't really possible in the baseline books without making those books worthless for all other settings, and making the baseline books generic without publishing anything else is just as bad, forcing DMs and players alike to obtain books from older editions(which newer players and DMs obviously won't do) just to get a good feel for what makes them different in each setting.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
No, they are not, they are creating a mish-mash where everything goes so that they can't be accused of discrimination. And seeing that stats are both technically, but also visually and in terms of roleplay some of the strongest element of the game, depriving yourself of racial ASI is a huge mistake. Note that only WotC is being pushed in that corner because of the visibility of D&D. Runequest has no such problem despite the fact that the differences of stats are mcu much stronger. For example, an aldryami ("elf") has an intelligence of 3d6+6 and a trollkin ("goblin") an intelligence of 2d6+3.
YEAH! Just like how Brujah vampires -always- have to use their high attributes into Physical and have to have crappy Mental and Social attributes at character creation!

... wait a second. That's not how it works at all! It's almost like the function of Potence, which all Brujah get, fulfills the strength function of Brujah vampires so they don't actually -need- to have 4 pips of strength to function... Huh.

Anywho. It's just a different way to design player races. Making them "Strong" not through attribute bonuses but increased carrying capacity or some other system can get the same idea across. That they finally decided to do it because people managed to get it through their heads that making some character races which had real world cultural or quasi-narrative analogs low intelligence is probably a bad thing isn't actually important to the discussion.

And now, at long last, you can have a 5e Half Orc Wizard without feeling like you made a "Bad Decision" for picking a race without an Intelligence Bonus. Which, honestly, is just awesome.

The only reason ASI have been "Visibly" the strongest element of defining a race is because it's how we've done it for -so long-. Change that, change the perception. Honestly, it'd be better if it were applied from Backgrounds and Cultures or Classes, instead. Sort of like how Pathfinder and Level Up are doing it.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Why? Why do you need something to be defined? You're willing to rewrite what you don't like, but aren't willing to choose between, or combine, two or four possibilities. I honestly don't get this.
I can tell you why I want things defined. Simply put, I'm paying these people for their ideas. Vague, do-what-you-want lore is literally something I can do myself. If they're not going to make a stand on their own story (that I can then take or leave), then just print the mechanics and sell me a cheaper book.
 

Scribe

Legend
And now, at long last, you can have a 5e Half Orc Wizard without feeling like you made a "Bad Decision" for picking a race without an Intelligence Bonus. Which, honestly, is just awesome.

You could do so before, you could do so with Tasha's, and the math doesnt demand you have a 16 or 17 anyway.

Nothing has change, beyond Wizards going forward, providing more templated, copy paste, race 'designs'.
 

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