No Naval Rules?

[The Shaman]

I had forgotten about the Waterborne Adventure rules (and those in the Expert Set), but I'd qualify both of those systems as providing the bare minimum necessary for naval adventures.

I'm still on my laptop, but if I remember correctly, the 1e DMG covers ship types, damage rules, weapon systems, maneuver rules, crew requirements, wind effects, and costs for everything.

That and a monster manual with a krakens, whales, dragon turtles, giant octopods, pirates, and a bunch of aquatic humanoids and other monsters served us in good stead for years.

If that's the "bare minimum," what do you consider complete?

 

[The Shaman]

My belly button doesn't need rules!

...

Wait... thats Navel...

Roll 1d6: 1-4 innie, 5-6 outie.

Roll 1d8: 1-2 hairy, 3-4 fungal smell, 5-6 copious lint, 7-8 roll twice on this table

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Roll 1d6: 1-4 innie, 5-6 outie.

Roll 1d8: 1-2 hairy, 3-4 fungal smell, 5-6 copious lint, 7-8 roll twice on this table

Not cool, I was eating yoghourt when I read this... blarf.

 

[Bluenose]

The average adventuring group of four to seven PCs isn't remotely enough to crew anything bigger than a fishing boat. Which I suspect is something people would only use as a means of transport, and any combat involved is pretty much like any other melee in difficult terrain with a fall on one side. Once you start dealing with larger ships, you're also working with large NPC crews and lots of things the players don't roll for themselves or if they do it's on behalf of NPCs. My personal experiences suggest players really don't find rolling for others or the GM rolling things for them particularly interesting.

Add in that Naval Combat rules aren't generally part of the core rules, so there'll be people unfamiliar with them. And that most people really aren't familiar with how it works in real life. And that it probably requires maps and/or models that aren't among the ones most people will have by default. It's really not a surprise that naval rules are rare, because most people aren't likely to need them or use them.

 

[Jhaelen]

So why has there been no rules for naval warfare in D&D?

Because the pcs' abilities wouldn't matter?

It's the same reason why there are no mass combat rules. You want the pcs to be the heroes, you want them to shine and give them plenty of opportunity to use their powers.

In naval warfare it's the ships that matter and to a lesser degree the captains' skills.

You're better off using the naval warfare thing as a backdrop to set the mood and play it using the normal rules for combat encounters or skill challenges. Use hazards, terrain features and/or environmental modifiers as you see fit.

3e did have Stormwrack, but I don't know anyone who ever bothered to use the rules for ship-to-ship combat. I've seen the Eberron adaptation for Airships but didn't consider them to be particularly well thought out or - more importantly - fun.

4e's approach for vehicle rules goes in the right direction: The rules are simple enough to be easily integrated into standard combat encounters. They add a bit of variety without adding complexity or another layer of game mechanics.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Because the pcs' abilities wouldn't matter?

Why do the PC's abilities cease to matter because they are now in a boat or on board a ship?

"Captain, come about quickly. Tim the enchanter, target the main mast of that galleon and fire! "

Of course this requires PC's to have abilities with useful ranges at sea. A 1E magic user or archer could be effective at hundreds of feet away. 10 squares doesn't cut it.

Another disadvantage of designing powers to work only on gridded soundstages IMHO.

It's the same reason why there are no mass combat rules. You want the pcs to be the heroes, you want them to shine and give them plenty of opportunity to use their powers.

In naval warfare it's the ships that matter and to a lesser degree the captains' skills.

Well, honestly it is up to the PC's to be the heroes (or not) in any given situation. They may find themselves in the middle of a war and have to find a way to make a large impact with their small group. What if a PC happens to be the captain of a vessel?

 

[The Shaman]

Not cool, I was eating yoghourt when I read this... blarf.

Ooo, yeesh.

Sorry 'bout that.

 

[jdrakeh]

I'm still on my laptop, but if I remember correctly, the 1e DMG covers ship types, damage rules, weapon systems, maneuver rules, crew requirements, wind effects, and costs for everything.

The 1e rules do cover that stuff, but in very little detail (all of the rules for waterborne adventure fill exactly two pages) and some of the specifics seem like they weren't thought out too well (e.g., ship movement is given in miles per hour, rather than in tabletop units as all other movement in the game; large ships have fewer HPs than most mid-level characters, etc). IMO, the AD&D rules for waterborne adventure are woefully inadequate as written. With some house ruling, though, they'd be passable (just passable, though, not good and certainly not great). Like I said, though, YMMV.

 

[TheYeti1775]

We used thise game for ship to ship simulation:
Pirates of the Spanish Main | Board Game | BoardGameGeek

Simple yet effective.
When we got close enough for boarding actions than we broke out the ship layouts on the play mat.

 

[D'karr]

We used thise game for ship to ship simulation:
Pirates of the Spanish Main | Board Game | BoardGameGeek

Simple yet effective.
When we got close enough for boarding actions than we broke out the ship layouts on the play mat.

Yep, that's what we used. Super simple ship to ship combat, and very easy to work with.