No Random treasure !?!?...

[Nyaricus]

I remember randomly rolled magic items.

Reminds me of the time the party killed off something at around level 7 which has a x2 drop or somesuch. I start rolling.... and rolling... and rolling....

about 30 minutes later, I had something like a +3 Intelligent Frost Battle Axe which took over the first player who touched it (wait for it--), a barbarian, who immediately went into a rage after being taken control of by the axe (did I mention it was a Chaotic Evil Intelligent Battleaxe? It was) and who then killed the entire party single-handedly.

Yeah.....

I'll take what 4e has over those bloody random tables any day.

cheers,
--N

 

[Spatula]

I kinda' miss the random treasure tables, but 4E is designed to be more of a pre-planned game than earlier editions were. I'm personally more in favor of the "wander around and let adventure find you" mode of play, not the "DM has your 'adventure' prepared" mode. But since 4E isn't designed for the former, I'll approach it with the mindset of the latter.

Sorry, but that's bunk. The 4e DMG lays out a rather pre-planned way of running the game, because that's vastly to the benefit of newbie DMs. But the same would be true in any edition. If you want to run more by the seat of your pants, well 4e is fine for that too, seeing as encounters are so easy to slap together. What it's designed for is killing things and taking their stuff. How you go about doing that is up to the players.

 

[Thasmodious]

Sorry, but that's bunk. The 4e DMG lays out a rather pre-planned way of running the game, because that's vastly to the benefit of newbie DMs. But the same would be true in any edition. If you want to run more by the seat of your pants, well 4e is fine for that too, seeing as encounters are so easy to slap together. What it's designed for is killing things and taking their stuff. How you go about doing that is up to the players.

I agree. 3e was hell to DM on the fly. You either had to 'cheat' and just fudge all your monster stats or use things straight out of the MM or the DMG. I always DMed largely on the fly, but 3e really killed that in me and I spent hours prepping each weeks sessions and the game took on a more pre-planned style than I usually use. 4e has me winging everything again. Even at the table its easy to modify a monster out of the MM up and down a couple levels. I'm back to just setting up some areas and letting PCs do as they wish and its comfortable again. I love that.

 

[Lanefan]

I remember randomly rolled magic items.

Reminds me of the time the party killed off something at around level 7 which has a x2 drop or somesuch. I start rolling.... and rolling... and rolling....

about 30 minutes later, I had something like a +3 Intelligent Frost Battle Axe which took over the first player who touched it (wait for it--), a barbarian, who immediately went into a rage after being taken control of by the axe (did I mention it was a Chaotic Evil Intelligent Battleaxe? It was) and who then killed the entire party single-handedly.

Yeah.....

I'll take what 4e has over those bloody random tables any day.

Fine. I'll take your random tables and add them to my own.

And all the resources the party could muster couldn't stop a single barbarian? No Hold? No Paralyze? No Entangle? No Charm? No Hypnotize? And failing those, no way to kill him outright?

Sounds like the barbarian just might have deserved to win.

Lanefan

 

[Obryn]

I'm not for random treasure generators, but the options as a previous poster pointed out is that the characters NEED certain items as the move forward in order to survive. I thought I remember reading before 4e came out that it would be more like Iron Heroes (which to be fair I've never actually played, just looked over), but something along the lines that the characters would be the main focus and magic items wouldn't be requisite, just beneficial. If a fighter was locked up in a prison and broke out with no gear, just whatever weapon he grabbed from the guard he should be nearly as effective as when he's fully equipped...

3.5e didn't have that at all, and I hoped that what I read was right, but it obviously isn't...

4e is much, much better at this, versus 3e. I ran 3e from the outset, and what happened wasn't so much that battles were unwinnable - but that your spellcasters far outshined your non-spellcasters that the fighters might as well not have been there at all.

In 4e, since all the classes are more balanced, as long as there are SOME weapons to be had, everything will run much better.

Alternately, according to Mearls, you can give all PCs +1 to attacks, defenses, and damage at 3rd, 8th, 13th, 18th, 23rd, and 28th levels - then ignore enhancement bonuses on items entirely, only paying attention to the extra "cool stuff".

-O

 

[epoling]

I have to agree with the OP - I would never in a million years ask for, or use, a player generated magic item wishlist. The folks I play with laughed when I told them this. We played afterwards, with them holding the last creature at just a few hitpoints, demanding the items off of their "lists", on every encounter. Sorry, they got the treasure that I had already determined was in the adventure... Some of it useful, but none of it on their lists.

I am going to continue desiging custom treasures for adventures, without placing them in parcels. If it means I have to change the scale of the encounters, so be it. To much magic spoils the fun when it is found. Oh, and it will still need some kind of spell to identify it - a 25 to 50 GP Wizard Spell. (Still calling them Spells, not Rituals - sorry... that way I don't have re-tool EVERYTHING in my campaign world.)

Magic items can be sold for a decent price, in bigger towns, though magic shops have always been rare. Magic schools, adventurer's guilds, and even the city militia often buy magic items for certain situations. They pay full price. And disenchantment is not an option - a magic item is extremely difficult to destroy - otherwise, Frodo could have just had Gandalf disenchant the One Ring and use the residuum to make a magical stove for cooking breakfast all day long. However, buying magic items is extremely difficult and expensive, so monetary wealth isn't necessarily going to make things any better for the players.

I think, if you let it, 4E could really straitjacket the DM, as everything is rigidly laid out. A good DM is one who will be able to know when to say "NO" and do things their way.

Eric

 

[Arbitrary]

Fine. I'll take your random tables and add them to my own.

And all the resources the party could muster couldn't stop a single barbarian? No Hold? No Paralyze? No Entangle? No Charm? No Hypnotize? And failing those, no way to kill him outright?

Sounds like the barbarian just might have deserved to win.

Lanefan

Heh, Barbarians from the old Unearthed Arcana were just absolute monsters. I could see one running wild and murdering the party.

 

[Storm-Bringer]

I remember randomly rolled magic items.

Reminds me of the time the party killed off something at around level 7 which has a x2 drop or somesuch. I start rolling.... and rolling... and rolling....

about 30 minutes later, I had something like a +3 Intelligent Frost Battle Axe which took over the first player who touched it (wait for it--), a barbarian, who immediately went into a rage after being taken control of by the axe (did I mention it was a Chaotic Evil Intelligent Battleaxe? It was) and who then killed the entire party single-handedly.

Yeah.....

I'll take what 4e has over those bloody random tables any day.

cheers,
--N

Wow. That is some really bad DMing right there.

Sorry, it's not the fault of the treasure tables.

Lemme throw an anecdotal at ya:

Bunch of years ago, when I was in the AF, pay was always short. Some bills just didn't get paid on time, if at all. Rough time for an Airman First Class, but at least I had someplace to live. Well, it seemed a prudent time to talk to the financial counselors on base. We go over the budget, he asks about insurance on the car. Well, naturally, that is one of those things that tended to lapse when you are starting a family on a government paycheck. The guy almost blows his top. He goes on and on about how important insurance is when you are driving. To make sure his point is made, he tells us about how his daughter in law was in a terrible accident and the other guy didn't have insurance, and nothing would have happened if the other guy would have had insurance. I was a bit confused about how insurance would have prevented the accident, but he is pressing on with his story. Gotta have insurance! Sure, the guy was drunk at the time of the accident, but INSURANCE! HIS DAUGHTER IN LAW! ACCIDENT!.

Needless to say, we didn't take him very seriously after that.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

That reminds me of the time I ordered pizza and the courier told me I could save money by turning off my air conditioning when I leave the house.

 

[pawsplay]

Axiom 1) Good DMs give players magic items they can use.
Axiom 2) Good DMs make treasure seem appropriate to the location it was found in.

See, I have a problem with axiom 1, there. 's' probably why I will always want a random treasure generator with my D&D, even though I rarely use it. Usually, I can rely on my own creativity to come up with magical treasures that are both useful and frustrating. Some of the most heated discussions I have ever heard were my players debating whether they should sell a magical spoon that creates gruel, or keep it for provisions.