D&D 4E No Roleplaying XP in 4e

[Wormwood]

I can totally understand. It's not easy to tell someone that you think your playstyles are not exactly compatible, and that he might need to adjust or just go...

Generally, I think it's better to make sure everyone at the table has the same expectations about the game before the first die is thrown---definitely better than hitting players over the head with game resources because their attitude differs from yours.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Hmmm... So, should we be referring to 4e as a "Roleplaying" game?

Never mind... Silly rhetorical question.

So you only roleplay if there is a tangible, in game, reward for it?

Huh I always roleplayed because I was digging my character, the DMs setting/adventure and/or the rest of the group. Getting XPs for doing it seems...wierd. But if that is what you need to keep the hate alive go right ahead.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I can totally understand. It's not easy to tell someone that you think your playstyles are not exactly compatible, and that he might need to adjust or just go...

I'm not sure it's a matter of style, really. If a chess player doesn't know the difference between a bishop and a pawn, if a line dancer won't dance in line or if a karateka would rather fight while sitting down, theirs is not a particular style. They're just not very good at what they do. While the only goal of RPG is to have fun, it's much more fun if people actually want to play the game. If they'd rather do something else, in my opinion, they should, and they'd be well-advised not to editorialize about their "style".

 

[glass]

Honestly, what you're describing is not what I have observed. In my experience, small XP bonuses are enough to remind players that they're supposed to make a small effort and do more than just roll the dice. I'm not asking for much. If they're not ready to do that minimal effort, they probably shouldn't play roleplaying games in the first place, in my opinion.

'Supposed to'? At my table, players are 'supposed to' do whatever they find fun*. This is, after all, a leisure activity.


glass.

(* as long as it isn't at the expense of others' fun, of course)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I'm not sure it's a matter of style, really. If a chess player doesn't know the difference between a bishop and a pawn, if a line dancer won't dance in line or if a karateka would rather fight while sitting down, theirs is not a particular style. They're just not very good at what they do. While the only goal of RPG is to have fun, it's much more fun if people actually want to play the game. If they'd rather do something else, in my opinion, they should, and they'd be well-advised not to editorialize about their "style".

I guess I'll have to elaborate a bit more on this then I wanted...

Well, not caring about rule specifics might be stupid for Chess, but it can work for Roleplaying Games, since it is a very social activity. (Beer & Pretzels vs. Immersive Storytelling, and stuff like that).

That's why I'd say instead of "punishing" someone for his lack of ability (or lack of interest), find either a way to accomandate his preferences (without expending your own), or just let him go. The least you should do is talk about it. He might never understand what you're punishing him for. Heck, he might even miss that you're punishing him at all. And if he doesn't care about it, you're doing something that is essentially totally useless. Okay, maybe you achieve increasing the awkwardness towards him ("he just doesn't get it that he sucks! And his characters are uselss due to the XP he missed out!"), but by "useful" I generally mean somemthing positive.

And when I say I understand your behavior, I say it full well knowing that I might make exactly the same kinds of mistake as you. But that doesn't change that it's a mistake.

 

[MerricB]

One can point out that WOTC's statement IS an endorsement of one playing style over the other, namely killing things and taking their stuff.

That seems to be the emphasis.

Rubbish.

The emphasis for Wizards is on overcoming the challenge. Consider the situation:

The PCs need to get past the guard to rescue the princess.

One group charges into combat, slays the guard, and rescues the princess. They get quest XP (goal accomplished) based on their level, and challenge XP (defeating the guard) based on the monster's level.

One group sneaks by the guard, using their high Stealth skills, and rescues the princess. They get quest XP based on their level and challenge XP based on the monster's level.

One group has some brilliant thespians and, without even rolling, talk the guards into letting them see the princess, giving them the keys, and then locking themselves into the prison whilst the PCs walk off with the princess. They get XP based on their level and challenge XP based on the monster's level.

Any of those three ways is entirely valid in D&D. The last group has effectively got rewarded for roleplaying, but - obviously - roleplaying related to the adventure. You could also give personal Quest XP likewise for quests completed via roleplaying.

Yes, D&D 4e has a rather nice skill system that allows people to make skill rolls instead of roleplaying, but it has also been said by the designers that players can ignore that and roleplay it out instead.

This way, D&D manages to accomodate a number of different styles of play within its reward system.

Cheers!

 

[glass]

KISS concerts + pre-AIDS sex + OD&D homebrews = where's my freaking time machine!!

I can't help you with the last two, but Kiss are playing the Download festival in a couple of weeks. Might be a bit of a trek, though.


glass.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

'Supposed to'? At my table, players are 'supposed to' do whatever they find fun*. This is, after all, a leisure activity.

Tennis is also a leisure activity, but I'd rather play with someone who uses a racquet. I do think that even in RPG, there's a minimal amount of commitment required of everyone. Without that commitment, the game turns into a chat among friends, which is fine in itself, but it is something else.

That's why I'd say instead of "punishing" someone for his lack of ability (or lack of interest), find either a way to accomandate his preferences (without expending your own), or just let him go.

To be perfectly honest, I've never encountered the situation I've described, and giving a couple of roleplaying XPs has usually been more than enough to guarantee that everyone was on the same page. That's why I think it's necessary.

 

[D.Shaffer]

You're still running into the same problems though.

You're going to come out with one of two results:

Everyone gets the same XP reward for fulfilling the 'RP'ed signifigantly' hoops and gets it. In which case, why are you even bothering awarding it? Just make it part of the encounter XP.

Someone gets more then another player, which leads to the inevitable 'Why'. Sure, if they're wildly acting OOC it might be easy to explain, but what about the guy who's TRYING to RP but just isnt very good at it? Should they get penalised for just not being as good at it as the guy who is? How is this a good thing for party integrity? What if he's a new guy who's just not that experienced with RP in general? How is this going to make him want to continue if he feels he's getting penalised for being new? If you give them the same amount as everyone else to compensate, those who ARE trying are going to feel penalised, or we're back to everyone getting the same XP for jumping through the right hoops again, in which case see the previous.

It's more trouble then it's worth.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Tennis is also a leisure activity, but I'd rather play with someone who uses a racquet. I do think that even in RPG, there's a minimal amount of commitment required of everyone. Without that commitment, the game turns into a chat among friends, which is fine in itself, but it is something else.


To be perfectly honest, I've never encountered the situation I've described, and giving a couple of roleplaying XPs has usually been more than enough to guarantee that everyone was on the same page. That's why I think it's necessary.

Or you could just talk about it with them beforehand, and make sure you're all on the same page. It might be... more blunt, but it also gets sure nobody misunderstands your goals. Some people might say "what a prick, giving out XP for roleplaying? Do I have to convince him that my portrayal of a righteous Paladin is good. Do I have to hunt down every evil being merciless?"