No Second Edition Love?

[MerricB]

There are no rules for it whatsoever, except optional ones in Unearthed Arcana.

Actually, there are optional training rules in the DMG.

One of the big changes in the style of D&D play is the rise of story-arcs, where time spent training interrupts the flow of the story/adventure too much. See also G1-3 and D1-3, where training is also not possible.

Cheers!

 

[Seeten]

Malhost, I went to 3E lock stock an barrel I assumed the standardization with saves presented in 3E were going to be far superior to 1Es crazy save tables. It just worked out though that it started to feel mechanical, too much like a game, too logical...to the point that it got boring, lost its spirit. Consistancy belongs in the core abilities of a class, not in periferal stuff thats unrelated to your training. Who trains to "jump" or "dodge" or "climb" in magic-user school? Sure they should go up in some small way as a PC goes up in levels, but they shouldn't be trained for. I don't see the logic here. In my mind, its a more fun as a player when I don't know what the DM is going to do. It also keeps the DM in the role of God. Too often in 3E the players start trying to take over the show, and push the DM to role of module reader.

I pray to Gods, or not, I dont game with them.

Any DM with a God complex needs to seek medical help, not switch back to 1e or 2e.

 

[Malhost Zormaeril]

Malhost, I went to 3E lock stock an barrel I assumed the standardization with saves presented in 3E were going to be far superior to 1Es crazy save tables. It just worked out though that it started to feel mechanical, too much like a game, too logical...to the point that it got boring, lost its spirit. Consistancy belongs in the core abilities of a class, not in periferal stuff thats unrelated to your training. Who trains to "jump" or "dodge" or "climb" in magic-user school? Sure they should go up in some small way as a PC goes up in levels, but they shouldn't be trained for. I don't see the logic here. In my mind, its a more fun as a player when I don't know what the DM is going to do. It also keeps the DM in the role of God. Too often in 3E the players start trying to take over the show, and push the DM to role of module reader.

That's a good question. I guess you don't learn to jump, dodge or climb in magic-user school. That you learn playing with your friends as a kid before you're pawned off to the local wizard to do his laundry and learn magic from him.

Regardless, it's not about training for it or not training for it. If it were an ability check (say, STR or DEX) it wouldn't be "trained", but it would be consistent. You want to jump that chasm? Sure thing, roll STR. The Girdle of Giant Strength helps you jump, but the Periapt of Proof against Poison doesn't. And neither does the Resist Cold spell your party's Cleric cast on you.

As for the players wanting to take over the show, I for one would be glad for it (being a DM). It beats having to spoon-feed the story to them, like I have to do on bad days. Really, if they try to do things by themselves it shows they're interested in that part of the game, and I can foment that and create a more enjoyable experience for all involved... especially myself, since I don't have to wrack my brain for ways to keep them entertained.

Of course, this deal with setting the mood and letting the players run with it is something I learned playing 2e, and like it or not, I guess it coloured my view of RPGs ever since. You have obviously been coloured by another style of play, which I guess must have been more common in 1e days. I wasn't there, so I can't know for sure...

 

[Hussar]

Y'know, I've always felt that my job as DM was much better served by paying attention to the story and what was going on, rather than playing everyone's accountant.

That's probably the main reason I did switch to 2e and stayed switched. The rules were quite a bit tighter in 2e. I didn't have to deal with a lot of the fiat that I was never all that comfortable with in the first place, either as a player or a DM.

 

[BroccoliRage]

I like 2e just find. I like all pre-d20 D&D and it's varaint systems, because I can run all of them simulataneously with minimal bumps.

 

[tx7321]

I pray to Gods, or not, I dont game with them.

Any DM with a God complex needs to seek medical help, not switch back to 1e or 2e.

Not literally. All that means is that the DM is not questioned once the game starts. As long as the players and the DM share the same basic understanding of the rules (ie staying consistant).

If a DM is bad, you just don't use him for a DM again. But then I've never seen a DM miss-use his "ultimate power" but once (and that was caused by one of the guys girl friends standing around drilling holes of hatred at the DM (she hated gaming and anyone that was involved in it). That guy ended up marrying her (some red headed Irish nightmare) and left our group. The DM took back what happened, saying he temporarily snapped.

 

[Raven Crowking]

If a DM is bad, you just don't use him for a DM again.

Words to live by.

 

[dcas]

All that means is that the DM is not questioned once the game starts.

I've never played in any campaign in which the GM was not questioned during the game. No matter what the rules.

 

[Rothe]

....but for whatever reason training costs were one of the AD&Disms we did adopt -- I'm not sure why, perhaps just because even back then the meta-game reasoning (that these costs serve as a treasure-sink to keep characters motivated to keep adventuring) was obvious to us?

I can see that. When we first ran a commerical TSR module (G1), I think the general consensus of ouor group was that it had a whopping lot of treasure. Our DM had actually cut it down drastically, yet we thought we got a huge haul (or monty haul). It was only after the fact did we see how much there was in the original.

The number one treasure sink I saw used was via Raise Dead, etc. spells, I don't know what they cost but I think we were grossly overcharged. Someone or something always seemed to die each adventure. IIRC we once had to use a 100,000gp gem to get someone back; not so easy come, easy go, but maybe that was for a Wish.

In the end we were always pretty hungry for more.

Oh, and on a slight tangent, awarding XP for monsters that are tricked or subdued rather than killed is actually BtB in 1E AD&D (though monsters that are subdued or captured and then sold/ransomed generate XP based on their sale/ransom value rather than their "monster" value).

I didn't know that. I always thought it was "slay" or subdue and only dragons could be subdued.

 

[Rothe]

I've never played in any campaign in which the GM was not questioned during the game. No matter what the rules.

As a DM I demand to be questioned! Do you have enough chips? Can I get you another beer? These are questions a good player should learn to ask.

I never mind being questioned as so far I only game with people I feel I can call friends or who come highly recommend as reasonable folk by friends. I have no problem admitting I made a mistake or tweaking a rule at player suggestion. We are all on the same page on the type of game we like to play so it's no thing.

I've always played and DMed this way since 1976,except for my first campaign where my friend couldn't question his older brother, the DM, but everyone else could; does that count?.