No Smell Skill?

[starwolf]

The problem with that is it lessens the value/rarity of the Scent: ability, unless you don't let it apply to tracking, which it would be fine in that case.

That is exactly how it is applied in our campaign. You can't Track by a smell check alone, just as you can't track by by a spot check alone. You have to have the Scent feat to track by smell, just as you have to have the Track feat to track by Wilderness Lore.
Of course as I write this I realize that it suddenly doesn't make sense that Track is based solely on Wilderness Lore....perhaps there should be a synergy bonus with high levels of Spot?

Or for City/Urban trackers you could have a Feat:Trail/Shadow that works off the Spot skill only.

 

[mmadsen]

It sounds like everyone's coming at this from a different perspective. Let me clarify what I meant.

Humans can see and hear well, and they often make Spot and Listen checks to notice visible and audible things. Many animals (and some monsters, and some Gnomes) have the Scent ability/feat, and it lets them (a) track, and (b) detect enemies (and smelly things in general) by scent. To detect things though, it requires a Wis roll.

I would think that a dog (or Gnome) could improve his Smell skill in the same way that he could improve his Spot or Listen skill.

To complicate things, different animals with the Scent ability/feat get different bonuses to Wilderness Lore to track by smell. Small dogs, for instance, get +8, while big dogs ("riding dogs") get +4.

 

[Plane Sailing]

My personal take?

Humans use eyes for a spot check and a combination of eyes and hands for a search check.

Dogs (and other animals could at scent) use their nose for a spot check and search check.

I just use the same spot and search skills, but assume that they are using a different sense (which may give or reduce circumstance bonuses to their checks).

Cheers

 

[smetzger]

Since this is the rules forum I am answering from a strictly rules perspective.

There is no Scent skill, its not needed. The only time you make a skill role associated with scent is when you are tracking and this is the Wilderness Lore skill. Also, it seems that you can track without having the Track feat if you have Scent. This is evidenced by the MM entry for Dog which has Scent but no track and it says it can track with its scent.

If you want to discuss a Scent skill you should take it to the House Rules forum.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The problem with that is it lessens the value/rarity of the Scent: ability, unless you don't let it apply to tracking, which it would be fine in that case.

I see it as similar to Spot and Search. Search is not a replacement for Spot or vice versa.

Spot gives you a large amount of coarse, real-time information. Search gives you fine detailed information slowly, usually not quickly enough to useful in combat.

Scent gives you a large amount of coarse, real-time information. Smell gives you fine detailed information slowly, usually not quickly enough to useful in combat.

The real difference is Scent and Smell probably would synergize very well. But one is not a practical replacement for the other.

I would expect most creatures with the Scent ability would also qualify for a substantial racial bonus to the Smell skill.

I would not recommend allowing Smell skill for help in tracking in most cases. But just like a DM might allow you to use Spot in place of Search with a penalty, you might try Smell under some circumstances.

 

[mmadsen]

There is no Scent skill, its not needed.

How can both Spot and Listen be necessary, but Scent isn't? If you want to detect someone within your line of sight, you use Spot. If you want to detect someone within your hearing, you use Listen. Why wouldn't you use a Smell skill to detect something with an odor?

The only time you make a skill role associated with scent is when you are tracking and this is the Wilderness Lore skill.

The rules ask for a Wis roll to detect enemies, etc. via smell. How is that not perfectly analogous to an untrained Spot or Listen check?

Also, it seems that you can track without having the Track feat if you have Scent. This is evidenced by the MM entry for Dog which has Scent but no track and it says it can track with its scent.

Certainly.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

I kind of like the idea of a "scent skill" - but I am a bit wary of it as certain animals (particularly owls) do not necessarily have this sense.

As far as the scent feat - I don't think the feat is a good thing. The idea behind the feat is that you can now pick up odor trails - the way we see footprints or other tracks. The sensetivity is probably best reflected by "ranks" in a skill.

I VEHEMENTLY disagree that having the ability to percieve the trail means one can follow it accurately - scent or otherwise.

 

[kreynolds]

Also, it seems that you can track without having the Track feat if you have Scent. This is evidenced by the MM entry for Dog which has Scent but no track and it says it can track with its scent.

That's because the Scent ability is basically the same thing as the Track feat. The main difference is that Scent has a very limited range. So of course you don't need the Track feat to track when you have Scent, as Scent is just a limited version of Track, but they are basically the same thing.

 

[kreynolds]

I kind of like the idea of a "scent skill" - but I am a bit wary of it as certain animals (particularly owls) do not necessarily have this sense.

Owls aren't really capable of Disarm Device either, which is probably the main reason that you don't see that skill in their stat blocks. Just because a single creature in the MM can't use the skill, doesn't mean that the skill doesn't belong in the game. Don't get me wrong though, the game doesn't need the scent skill.

As far as the scent feat - I don't think the feat is a good thing. The idea behind the feat is that you can now pick up odor trails - the way we see footprints or other tracks.

What's the big deal? Just have the feat function identically to the Scent ability. It's just like Track but much more limited.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Please do not ask for a "Feel" skill...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Player: "Okay, I want to roll my GROPE skill."