No stat blocks in modules per the GSL?

[Ruin Explorer]

Really? Sticking a bookmark in the MM is too much trouble now? Jotting down some notes on a piece of paper? When I was a boy...

When you were a boy adventures were either made by TSR or were semi-legal judges guild stuff. Either way, I don't remember ANY adventures from the late 70s or 80s or 90s (presuming about your age here) which didn't have stat-blocks for all the monsters involved.

Really, the whole point of buying a published adventure is convenience. If they make it so 3PP adventures not only cannot use the stat block but cannot even reference the page number (as it is right now), then third-party adventures are pretty much stuffed.

When you top this off with the fact that 3PP adventures can't use ANY of the monsters or creatures which make D&D, D&D, instead of "generic tolkien inspired fantasy game #103", then WotC are basically ensuring that no-one will be making any really remarkable or impressive 4E adventures for a while. Certainly makes Paizo's decision to stick with 3.5E (as it were) seem a hell of lot more rational.

Considering this is the way *most* modules have been done, whether you're talking about the 3rd edition era or the classic 1st edition and BECMI adventures, this is a complete non-issue. You have to things exactly the way people have been doing them all along, boo hoo.

I can't find any 2E or 3.XE adventures on my RPG shelves which don't have a sheet with stat blocks for the monsters, or stat blocks where the monsters appear, so what do you mean "doing all along"?

 

[jmucchiello]

Don't most adventures only print the first appearance of a monster and the refer you back to that appearance when you encounter another one later in the adventure?

 

[WhatGravitas]

You have to things exactly the way people have been doing them all along, boo hoo.

Just because people did it that way before, we have to keep doing it that way?

What if the new way is more convenient?

I'm not playing D&D to show off how diligent I am or how fast I can refer to 23 different books - it's not like there's any merit in doing so. I play D&D to have fun, to get together with friends, to create stories together.

None of this coincides with transcribing stuff on index cards or flipping through the MM. Especially not, when I'm paying for an adventure.

Furthermore, WotC pushes that with their Delve format and their emphasis on less page-flipping and cross-referencing.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Remathilis]

I can't find any 2E or 3.XE adventures on my RPG shelves which don't have a sheet with stat blocks for the monsters, or stat blocks where the monsters appear, so what do you mean "doing all along"?

Some Dungeon Magazine Modules in the early 3e days were monster-line stats (MONSTER, HP, Page XX) and some of the mid-year TSR modules for Planescape, Ravenloft, etc were devoid of Monster Manual-found stats (but presented stats for new or monsters in odd supplements).

 

[Mr. Patient]

Some Dungeon Magazine Modules in the early 3e days were monster-line stats (MONSTER, HP, Page XX) and some of the mid-year TSR modules for Planescape, Ravenloft, etc were devoid of Monster Manual-found stats (but presented stats for new or monsters in odd supplements).

I'm at work, and don't have anything in front of me, but wasn't it the case with Dungeon to the very end that they only supplied MM references for basic, unmodified monsters? I also seem to remember them offering advice to would-be adventure authors to use straight-out-of-the-MM monsters to save space on statblocks, since they were so large.

Someone with access to later issues of Dungeon can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[SweeneyTodd]

Okay, let's take an example. I forget what the names are in the MM; let's say there's an "Orc Berserker" in the Monster Manual.

You can say "This encounter contains one Orc Berserker". That's legal.

You can also make a new monster using the rules, and use the GSL to use the word Orc, then make him an "Orc Rager" or whatnot. You can post the stat block of the creature you create. That's also legal. (They give the specific example of advancing a stock MM character or adding a template; you can then list the statblock.)

If your Orc Rager uses one of the Orc Berserker's powers directly, you can use the name of the power from the SRD, but you can't list the power description. You could, however, give him a differently named power that basically has the same effect, and you could list that.

It's not nearly as restrictive as people are assuming; the whole point of the Monster Manual this time is that these creatures are base versions that you can add on to.

 

[James Jacobs]

I'm at work, and don't have anything in front of me, but wasn't it the case with Dungeon to the very end that they only supplied MM references for basic, unmodified monsters? I also seem to remember them offering advice to would-be adventure authors to use straight-out-of-the-MM monsters to save space on statblocks, since they were so large.

Someone with access to later issues of Dungeon can correct me if I'm wrong.

Correct. We'd basically do this for, say, a kraken:

Kraken CR 12
hp 290 (MM 162)

A strict reading of the GSL would seem to me to indicate that a 3rd party adventure could only use the word "Kraken," since the rest (CR and hp) aren't open content or in the SRD. And since you can't cite page numbers, there wouldn't really be a point to listing a stat block at all, really.

 

[Dog Moon]

Can templates be added onto creatures?

Can you put stats for a Vampire Lich Goblin, or would you have to make the DM stat that out himself since there aren't currently any Vampire Lich Goblins [ignore the absurdity of such a creature. ] statted out or can they put in those stats because there currently don't exist any?

 

[Tewligan]

Considering this is the way *most* modules have been done, whether you're talking about the 3rd edition era or the classic 1st edition and BECMI adventures, this is a complete non-issue. You have to things exactly the way people have been doing them all along, boo hoo.

Um, except that's not true - 1e adventures had enough info you needed to run the monster without going to the book.

 

[mlund]

Missing out on the page numbers for a citation is disappointing.

On the other hand, I think this is leaving the door open for another way to drive people to the Digital Initiative. If the D&D D.I. allows you to seach for, compile, and print monster stat-block pages to work with your adventure it'd have some extra draw.

Highly convenient resources = Paying subscriptions, and that's not a bad thing.

- Marty Lund