Non-combat, non-magic feats: Why are there no good ones?

[barsoomcore]

Something nobody has pointed out

The primary purpose of feats is to distinguish fighters from everyone else. Fighters get WAY more feats than other character classes -- sure they're only specific fighter bonus feats, but as most of those are common enough, it just means fighters have more slots to spend on non-bonus feats.

Feats really are at the core a COMBAT mechanic. You use feats to distinguish one type of fighter from another, and at that, they're GRRRRREAT! Want a tomahawk-throwing frontiersman? No problemo. A rapier-and-dagger duelist? Pshaw. A guy with a really BIG hammer? You got it.

Nobody else needs feats the way fighters do. It's what makes them interesting. Like spell selection for wizards or skill point distribution for rogues.

So yeah, feats are combat-oriented. They should be.

 

[the Jester]

Re: Something nobody has pointed out

The primary purpose of feats is to distinguish fighters from everyone else. Fighters get WAY more feats than other character classes -- sure they're only specific fighter bonus feats, but as most of those are common enough, it just means fighters have more slots to spend on non-bonus feats.

Feats really are at the core a COMBAT mechanic. You use feats to distinguish one type of fighter from another, and at that, they're GRRRRREAT! Want a tomahawk-throwing frontiersman? No problemo. A rapier-and-dagger duelist? Pshaw. A guy with a really BIG hammer? You got it.

Nobody else needs feats the way fighters do. It's what makes them interesting. Like spell selection for wizards or skill point distribution for rogues.

So yeah, feats are combat-oriented. They should be.

Well, yes and no.

I think that as long as the list of combat feats is big enough, there is a lot of room for other types. Not just the metamagic and item creation ones, either; there's a lot of potential types that haven't yet been fully explored (wild feats, divine feats, bardic feats, different kinds of social feats, etc).

 

[barsoomcore]

Re: Re: Something nobody has pointed out

I think that as long as the list of combat feats is big enough, there is a lot of room for other types. Not just the metamagic and item creation ones, either; there's a lot of potential types that haven't yet been fully explored (wild feats, divine feats, bardic feats, different kinds of social feats, etc).

Darn! I was doing so well, too.

Sure, there's lots of possibilities. I'm certainly gong to steal some of the ones you posted.

But just saying.

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Something nobody has pointed out

I think that as long as the list of combat feats is big enough, there is a lot of room for other types. Not just the metamagic and item creation ones, either; there's a lot of potential types that haven't yet been fully explored (wild feats, divine feats, bardic feats, different kinds of social feats, etc).

The flipside is that while fighters have feat slots coming out the wazoo, everybody else doesn't. Unless you're a fighter, you have a grand total of seven feats (or eight if you're a human) over the course of your adventuring career, not counting epic levels. So while non-fighting feats are a nice idea, I wouldn't go too far in creating feats that noone will be able to use.

 

[mmadsen]

As it stands, most Feats are combat oriented because the Fighter gets his Special Abilities primarily as Feats. If Barbarians, Druids, Rangers, Rogues, etc. all got their Special Abilities as Bonus Feats, more Feats would fit their needs.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Yes! Yes I do. It's a reminder of how much more a tactical figures game DnD has become.

Right...because the game's never been a tactical figures game before. It certainly isn't a set of rules for fantastic medieval wargames campaigns playable with paper and pencil and miniature figures.

Bring back spell ranges in inches! That adds to the roleplaying value!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I've read the thread, but maybe I missed this...

It's always struck me that Feats are geared towards combat, while Skills are the mechanics used more for roleplaying in D&D. The point is, perhaps it would be worthwhile to examine the use of skills like Intimidate or Diplomacy, and delineate how and where each are most useful. That is, make each of these skills different depending on who is using them, and when or where. Diplomacy used by an ambassador is going to be a far cry from the Diplomacy being used by a teenager asking out his first girl. Or whatever. I hope you see what I mean.

 

[WanderingMonster]

Racial Feats

Thinking about Tolkien inspired me to make racial feats. Think about the things Legolas can do that make him different from your standard D&D elf. That was the jumping off point. Thus far, here is what I have created:

Fear No Spirit [Racial]
You get a bonus to saving throws versus the special abilities of the undead.
Prerequisite: Elf, Half-elf; Cha 13+
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus to resist the effects of any supernatural or spell-like ability produced by an undead creature. This bonus is not applicable to the spells cast by undead with arcane or divine spellcasting class levels.

Death Sense [Racial]
You are sensitive to the ebb and flow of death energies.
Prerequisite: Elf, Half-Elf; Wis 13+
Benefit: You can feel the approach of death within 30 feet. In practical terms, you can sense undead creatures. This Feat does not confer the ability to see invisible or ethereal creatures.
As a side benefit, you can sense the approach of death of those near you. You can tell how close a creature is to death with a Heal check (DC 10 + the creature's current Hit Point total) as long as they are within the 30 foot range. Assessing someone's health in this manner is a standard action.
Lastly, your deep connection to others' mortality gives you a +2 bonus to Heal checks.

Warrior's Birthright [Racial]
You are especially deadly with the traditional weapons of your people.
Prerequisite: Elf, Half-elf; Weapon Focus (longsword, rapier, shortbow, longbow, composite longbow, or composite shortbow).
Benefit: You deal an additional 1d4 points of damage when you use a traditional elven weapon (longsword, rapier, shortbow, longbow, composite longbow, or composite shortbow). You must take this Feat once for every weapon you wish to benefit from it.

Soft of Step [Racial]
You may move softly and silently even under the most unfavorable conditions.
Prerequisite: Elf, Half-elf, Halfling; Dex 13+
Benefit: You receive a +3 bonus to Move Silently checks. In addition, you may move up to twice your full move without penalty (hustle).
Normal: Characters without this Feat, may Move Silently up to half their normal speed without complication. Anything beyond that pace suffers a penalty.

Light of Foot [Racial]
You may pass easily and undetectably over surfaces that would hinder others.
Prerequisite: Soft of Step
Benefit: You may travel over snow, sand, and other similarly unstable terrains as easily as if it were firm ground. Your footfalls are so light that anyone wishing to track you receives +10 to the DC of their Wilderness Lore check.
Normal: Snow and similar terrain reduces movement to half normal speed.

Miser's Nose [Racial]
You can smell the presence of precious metals and gems.
Prerequisite: Dwarf, Gnome.
Benefit: You can detect precious metals and gemstones in a 30 foot radius. This sense is an extraordinary ability based on smell. The acuity of the sense is such that you can discern between different substances and the quality of the material. When determining the value of gems or art objects made with precious metals and gems, you receive a +2 bonus to your Appraise check.

Common Sense [Racial]
Your practical nature tells you when something is not quite right.
Prequisite: Halfling, Gnome; Wis 13+
Benefit: You receive a +3 bonus to Sense Motive checks, and a +1 insight bonus to saves versus Illusions.

Adamantine Will [Racial]
Your mind is resistant to the manipulations of magic.
Prerequisite: Dwarf, Half-orc; Iron Will
Benefit: You receive a +2 competence bonus to saves versus mind-affecting spells.

Enduring Spirit [Racial]
You can overcome obstacles where others might fail.
Prerequisite: Human; Cha 13+
Benefit: Once per day you can assign a +1 luck bonus to any save, check, attack or damage roll.

Resolute Mettle [Racial]
Your spirit allows you to rise above the common man in all things.
Prerequisite: 3rd Level+; Enduring Spirit
Benefit: Once per day you can assign a +2 luck bonus to any save, check, attack or damage roll. This does not stack with the bonus from Enduring Spirit.

Ardent Temper [Racial]
Your strength of character is on par with kings and heroes of legend.
Prerequisite: 6th Level+; Resolute Mettle
Benefit: You may apply a luck bonus equal to your Charisma modifier to any save, check, attack or damage roll. You may use this bonus a number of times per day equal to half your Charisma modifier. This does not stack with the bonus from Enduring Spirit or Resolute Mettle.


Mixed Lineage [Racial]
The blood of one of your non-human ancestors courses strongly in your veins.
Prerequisites: None, but this Feat must be taken by the third character level.
Benefits: When you take this feat, you acquire one of the special abilities of one the core races in the PHB. For example, a half-dwarf might gain darkvision or stonecunning. A halfling with elf blood might be immune to magic sleep. Characters may gain a second favored class in this fashion as well (a dwarf with elf blood may have both fighter and wizard as favored classes).
This feat may be taken multiple times, but the character must select a different trait from the same race picked the first time.

 

[mmadsen]

It's always struck me that Feats are geared towards combat, while Skills are the mechanics used more for roleplaying in D&D.

If you look at the long lists of Feats out there, most of them are obviously worked up starting with the mechanics and then given a descriptive name. The more mechanics there are -- and there are lots of combat mechanics -- the more exceptions we can work into Feats.

 

[the Jester]

Granted that most non-fighters won't have too many feats, one thing I think is great is working up feats as special abilities that aren't otherwise in the game for npcs. For instance-

FINAL STRIKE (General, Fighter)
You just don’t know when to quit.
Benefit: When you are downed in combat by being reduced to 0 or fewer hit points or through subdual damage, you may take a single attack of opportunity against the foe that dropped you if it is within reach.

Now, will a pc take this feat? Unlikely- but it's a great villain feat! Or what about the npc bartender who's a notorious source of gossip? How about a social-type feat that increases his ability to gather information and increases the cost of an attempt to gather information from him?

I see feats as a useful dm tool as much as they're a useful pc tool.