Non-spellcasting priests?

MeepoTheMighty said:
I'm liking these ideas so far - how many perks should I give this class to make people want to play it?


I would say alot. The good news is you have alot of good ideas here. I would say draw it up as class and post it. You'll get a good feel for the balance after some replies.


Another "perk" might be giving them plate mail or some other costly gift at first level.
 

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The should be enough perks to make people consider it, but not too many to overshadow the magic-using priest class. This class should also receive a little extra money, to help encourage the greedy players to go this route.

Also, there should be obvious tension between both classes and the locals. Some locals won't be comfortable even making a regular sale if either priest is around. They dont want to be seen dealing with the magic-using priests, for fear of the consequences. And for the non-magic priests, well, who would be comfortable doing business in front of a representative of the ruling faith.

Just some of my ideas. Enjoy :)
 

I might consider the following abilities (mix and match as required)

1 Voice of Authority - +5 Diplomacy when dealing with 'beleivers' +2 uing Intimidate or Diplomacy on Non beleivers

2 Calm Minds (extraordinary ability) - like calm emotions but non-magical uses advanced psychology instead, perhaps even hypnotic suggestion

3 Word of Knowledge: Can make an Int check to recall information

4 Speak in Tongues: can make an Int check DC 15 to see if they 'know' a language read or heard for the first time.

5 Lay on Hands - per Paladin (ok a 'divine' power)
Inspire Faith: +2 Morale bonus to attacks for all allies within 30'

6 Righteous Fury - rage-like ability

7 Discernment of Spirits - can use Spot DC 15+HD to 'identify' Outsiders

8 Turn Undead

9 Turn Spirits (Outsiders)

10 Call Outsider (assuming the religion has Angel-like figures which can be called upon for aid)
 

MeepoTheMighty said:
I'm liking these ideas so far - how many perks should I give this class to make people want to play it?

Stacks and stacks of immunities.

Immunity to disease. Immunity to fear. Immunity to all mind-affecting magic. Immunity to fire and cold. Spell resistance. Wis and/or Cha bonus to AC and/or hit points. You get the idea.
 


Essentially, I want the priesthood to be nonmagical, since the god they follow was forced into a sleeping state a few millenia ago. This is in contrast to the "pagan" gods who have recently returned to the world and grant spells to their followers. I like the idea of conflict between an established church with tons of power and (nonmagical, but still heavy) influence vs. a number of smaller, magical priesthoods

Would the nonmagical faith have any supernatural powers associated with it? While the "pagan" clerics cast spells (devilry and sin, I tell you!) I think it would be interesting to give the practices of the Church supernatural effects that reflects the grace of the "one true" (but sleeping) god.
 

Bishop v. 1.0

Okay, let me know what you think. My gut reaction is that it's a little overpowered, but I'd like to see what you all think.

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A little campaign background (apologies to Angelsboi for a little idea borrowing):

In ages past, the Elder Gods came to Theros and found it to be a world devoid of life. The buliding blocks were present, but had yet been given the divine spark of creation. Ancient divine beings such as Xenoth the Elder Mind, Kiltan the Serpant Lord, and Irsa the Slimeking crafted creatures in their image, giving birth to the ancient races such as the illithid, elder dragons, and oozes.

Over time, the magic of the dragons, primordial energies of the oozes, and mental energies of the illithids evolved, portals to the Inner Planes came into being. Raw elements of fire, air, earth, water, positive and negative energy surged into Theros, and the combination of these elements gave birth to the humanoid races.

As humanoids began to evolve and develop language and conciousness, the elder gods sought to control mankind for their own purposes. In response to the pleas of mankind, new gods were born out of chaos to answer thier calls. These gods were more humanlike than the elder gods, and quickly gained the worship of the intelligent races.

This conflict eventually erupted into war. Divine beings on each side raised mighty armies of mortals, angels, devils, and demons. The landscape of Theros became a battlefield, with millions slaughtered on each side. The human warrior Lodoth eventually ascended to divinity through his heroic exploits, and became the favored champion of the humanoid gods.

Each of the humanoid gods invested a portion of his divinity into Lodoth, and the mighty warrior used the combined power of all divinity to battle and defeat the elder gods. However, the backlash of primal energies flowing through these primordial gods caused an explosion of divine energy. The humanoid gods were banished or destroyed, and the magical energy forced Lodoth into a deep sleep.

Over the next several thousand years, Lodoth's worshippers organized themselves into a powerful church. Through military and political power, the church gained control of the young Sithanian Empire, renaming it in honor of their slumbering diety. With nobody but a collection of barbarian tribes to stand in its way, the Lodothian Empire expanded out of its coastal city and, within a few hundred years, had conqured almost all of the known world.

Within the last hundred years, however, things have started to change. A few men and women began to display divine gifts, channeling the power of dieties long thought dead. With the resurgance of divine miracles, a number of puppet kingdoms and tributary nations rebelled against the Lodothian Empire, blaming Lodoth for the destruction of the humanoid gods. The powerful empire which once spanned the known world has begun to collapse, losing control of its frontier areas and slowly shrinking in size as more and more nations fall to heretical practice.

The clergy of the Lodothian Empire serve a dual purpose, acting as both religious and secular leaders of this powerful theocratic empire. Church dogma teaches that the other humanoid gods were killed in the surge of magical energies. Thus, anyone displaying any sort of divine abilities is hunted by the church as demon worshippers or worse. Sorcery and psionics are similarly outlawed, for they speak of the touch of the hated dragons or illithids. Only wizardry is accepted within the Lodothian Empire, and that only begrudgingly.

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Lodothian Bishop:

Lodothian bishops have no spellcasting abilities, although they do gain a small number of spell-like abilities as they progress in level.

Lodothian bishops serve many roles in imperial society. They act as commanders in the Imperial military, preach the gospel of Lodoth to heathens and barbarians, and act as the educated, noble caste in society. Much of their efforts are devoted to hunting down sorcerors, demon worshippers, or followers of "false" gods. Bishops of Lodoth form the judiciary and legislative branches of Imperial government. While the Emperor himself is not a member of the clergy, he is elected under their auspices, and none would hesitate to say that the High Pontiff is the true power behind the throne.

Bishops of Lodoth are often found adventuring, whether working to keep the peace in the far-flung empire, fight against the sedition of heathen kingdoms, or ferret out heresy and sorcery wherever it may be found.

Bishops span a wide range of alignments. Good bishops seek to combat evil, protect the innocent from sorcerors and demon worshippers, and restore the Empire to its former glory. Evil bishops are relentless in their pursuit of heretics, and will often conspire against one another in order to increase their own power - all in the name of Imperial glory, of course.

Lodathian bishops often multiclass as wizards or fighters. Evil bishops have been known to multiclass as sorcerors, thaumaturges, or priests of dark dieties, though they hide this information from their bretheren.

Despite the efforts of recent liberal theologists, at this time the Lodothian clergy is exclusively male. Females serve in support positions within the church as nuns, clerks, nurses, and teachers.

Alignment: Any nonchaotic. A chaotic character has little place within the structured hirearchy of the Lodothian church.
Gender: Male


Hit Die: d6
Skills: The bishop's class skills are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Innuendo (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Langauge, Swim (Str), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Wilderness Lore (Wis)

Skill Points: 4+Int Mod

BAB: As Cleric
Saves: Will good, Fort bad, Reflex bad

Proficiencies: Lodothian bishops are proficient with simple weapons. They are proficient with light armor and with shields. Although most bishops acting in a military capacity carry a longsword or rapier as a symbol of thier office, they gain no proficiency in any type of sword unless they spend feats on Martial Weapon Proficiencies.


1) Bonus class skill, salary, housing, legal
privledges
2) Favor +1, Inspire Confidence
3) Turn undead/outsider, Detect Magic
4) Favor +2, Ecclisiastical knowledge (Bardic Knowledge)
5) Speak in Tongues
6) Voice of Authority, Lodoth's Blessing
7) Divine Dreams (Wis bonus to AC)
8) Favor +3, Ecclisiastical knowledge (+1 to any 4 Knowledge skills)
9) Proselytize, Lesser Planar Ally
10) Witch Hunter (SR 10 + Wis Mod)
11) Divine Dreams (+1 Reflex Saves), Dismissal
12) Inspire Greatness, Ecclisiastical knowledge (+1 to any 4 Knowledge skills)
13) Favor +4, Detect Outsider
14) Dispel Magic, Planar Ally
15) Divine Dreams (+1 Attacks)
16) Ecclisiastical knowledge (+1 to any 4 Knowledge skills)
17) Favor +5
18) Greater Planar Ally
19) Holy Aura
20) Ecclisiastical knowledge (+1 to any 4 Knowledge skills)


Bonus Class Skill: As an educated member of the nobility, the bishop may select any one non-exclusive skill to be a class skill.

Salary: The Lodothian Empire is vast, and the imperial theocracy taxes its subjects heavily. Prince and pauper alike contribute tithes to the Church, and Lodothian bishops are entitled to a fraction of these tithes as compensation for their services. A bishop earns a monthly salary of 100 gold per class level.

Housing: Within the Lodothian Empire, bishops may legally demand food and shelter from anyone, whether serf or noble. The quality of such accomodations are commeasurate with both the rank of the bishop and the host's ability to provide.

Legal Privledges: No bishop may ever be tried by a secular court within the Lodothian Empire. In disputes between bishop and layman, judgement is usually in favor of the bishop, unless there is very strong evidence in the contrary. Punishments are handed out by the ecclesiastical hierarchy, and generally range from fines to excommunication. Capital punishment is reserved for the most severe offenses. Laymen recieve no such leniancy.

Favor: As the Star Wars Noble class ability. Bishops may use their contacts within the church and government to call upon favors. To recieve a favor, the bishop rolls a d20 and adds his favor bonus. The DC for such a favor is decided by the DM and generally ranges from 10 to 30 based on the circumstances. The bishop may request no more than one favor per week per point of favor bonus.

Inspire Confidence: Beginning at 2nd level, a bishop can use oratory to inspire confidence in allies, bolstering them and improving their chances of success. An ally must listen to and observe the bishop for a full round for the inspiration to take hold. The effect lasts for 5 rounds. The bishop can inspire a number of allies equal to half his bishop levels, rounded down. He can inspire confidence once per day for every four levels of he possesses (once per day from 1st to 4th level, twice per day from 5th to 8th level, and so on). An ally inspired with confidence gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. The bishop can't inspire confidence in himself. The ability only aids his allies, and has no effect on any who oppose the Lodothian faith.

Turn Undead/Outsider: The bishop may turn undead as a cleric. However, due to the diminished divine abilities of Lodoth, bishops turn undead as a cleric of two levels lower.
In addition, bishops may use a turn attempt to turn devils, demons, or other evil outsiders. Such outsiders recieve Turn Resistance equal to their Spell Resistance.

Detect Magic: Much of the bishop's efforts are bent towards discovering and destroying sorcerors and worshippers of demons or false deities. They gain the ability to use detect magic as a spell-like ability at will at 3rd level.

Ecclesiastical Knowledge: For thousands of years, the Lodothian clergy were the only educated members of society. The church has collected vast libraries containing nearly all knowledge known to man, and clergymen are taught a variety of subjects ranging from astronomy and botany to alchemy and theology. At 4th level, a Lodothian bishop gains the Bardic Knowledge ability of a bard half their level. Every 4 levels after that (at 8th, 12th, etc,) the Lodothian bishop may add a +1 bonus to any 4 Knowledge skills.

Speak In Tongues: Through their study of theological texts and obscure philosophical treatises, Lodothian bishops come into contact with a number of foreign languages. When a new language is heard or spoken, a bishop may make an intelligence check vs. DC 15 to understand the language. This check must be made each time a different speaker or piece of writing is encountered, even if the language is the same.

Voice of Authority: By sixth level, the bishop is well respected by worshippers of Lodoth, and well feared by others. When interacting with the faithful, a bishop gains a +4 bonus to Diplomacy checks. When attempting to intimidate heretics, sorcerors, or any others who oppose the Lodothian church, the bishop recieves a +4 bonus to Intimidate checks.

Lodoth's Blessing: By anointing a believer with holy oils and incense (a full-round action), a Lodothian bishop may affect the worshiper as with the bless spell. This lasts for one hour. The oils and incense used in the ritual cost 20 gp, and are usually paid for by the worshipper (although charitable bishops may cover the cost themselves). A bishop may not bless himself, though he could recieve the blessing from another bishop.

Divine Dreams: As Lodoth sleeps, he occasionally whispers to his most devoted servants, revealing small premonitions and hints of future events. The bishop is able to react to danger before it happens, relying on his At 7th level, this translates into an insight bonus to the bishop's AC equal to the bishop's Wisdom modifier. At 11th level, the bishop recieves a +1 insight bonus to Reflex saves. At 15th level, the bishop gains a +1 insight bonus to attack rolls with any melee weapon or touch attack.

Proselytize: By orating for five minutes, a bishop of at least 9th level can preach the will of Lodoth to a crowd. The crowd must be able to hear the bishop, and the bishop can affect a number of people up to twice his class level. Those closest to the bishop are affected first.

Those affected by this ability must make a wil save to avoid its affects. The DC of this will save is (10 + the bishop's Cha modifier + 1/2 the bishop's class level). Those of the same alignment as the bishop and who follow Lodoth recieve no bonus to the save. Those of the same alignment but who do not follow Lodoth recieve a +5 bonus to the save. Those of a different alignment recieve a +10 bonus to the save, while those who are openly hostile to the bishop are not affected (and probably wouldn't let the bishop talk for five minutes to begin with).

Affected creatures are affected as by the charm person spell. The bishop may incite the mob to perform a number of different actions, from fighting a battle to punishing infidels. The bishop may not suggest that the mob perform any obviously suicidal actions. The effect lasts for ten minutes plus one minute per class level of the bishop. This ability may only be used once per day.

Planar Ally: At 9th level, the bishop may cast lesser planar ally (as the divine spell) once per day as a spell-like ability. At 14th level, he may instead cast planar ally once per day. At 18th level, he may instead cast greater planar ally once per day.


Witch Hunter: At 10th level, the bishop's dedication to fighting sorcery and heresy is so strong that he is able to shrug off some of the effects of magic. The bishop gains spell resistance equal to 10 + his Wisdom modifier.

Dismissal: At 10th level, the bishop may cast dismissal (as the divine spell of the same name) once per day as a full-round action. The caster level for this effect is equal to the bishop's class level.

Inspire Greatness: At 12th level, the bishop may inspire greatness as the bardic ability of the same name. He may do this once per day at 12th level, twice per day at 15th level, and three times per day at 18th level. Each use of this ability affects one creature. Those affected by this ability gain +2d10 temporary hit points, a +2 competence bonus on attacks, and a +1 competence bonus on Fortitude saves. This ability lasts for as long as the target can hear the bishop praying and for five rounds thereafter. A bishop may not inspire greatness in himself.

Detect Outsider: At 13th level, the bishop may detect outsiders at will as a spell-like ability. This functions similar to the detect undead spell, but affects outsiders instead of undead.

Dispel Magic: At 14th level, the bishop may use dispel magic thrice per day as a spell-like ability. However, the bishop may only use these to counterspell spells cast by enemy spellcasters.

Holy Aura: At 19th level, the bishop may cast Holy Aura as a spell-like ability once per day.
 



Re: Bishop v. 1.0

MeepoTheMighty said:
Proselytize

I think basing the Proseltyize ability on the Hypnotism spell would work better.

The character's gestures and droning incantation cause creatures nearby to stop and stare blankly at the character, hypnotized. The character can use their rapt attention to make the character's suggestions and requests seem more plausible. Roll 2d4 to see how many total HD the character affects. Creatures with fewer HD are affected before creatures with more HD. Only creatures who can see or hear the character are affected, but they do not need to understand the character to be hypnotized.

If the character uses this spell in combat, the targets gain a +2 bonus to their saving throws. If the spell affects only a single creature not in combat at the time, the saving throw has a penalty of –2. While hypnotized, a creature’s Spot and Listen checks suffer a –4 penalty. Any potential threat (such as an armed party member moving behind the hypnotized creature) allows the creature a second saving throw. Any obvious threat, such as casting a spell, drawing a sword, or aiming an arrow, automatically breaks the hypnotism, as does shaking or slapping the creature. A hypnotized creature’s ally may shake it free of the spell as a standard action.

While the subject is hypnotized, the character can make a suggestion or request (provided the character can communicate with it). The suggestion must be brief and reasonable. An affected creature reacts as though it were two steps more friendly in attitude. Even once the spell ends, it retains its new attitude toward the character, but only with respect to that particular suggestion.

A creature who fails its saving throw does not remember that the character enspelled it.
 

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