nonlethal sneak attack + power attack

[Dross]

there are some abilities (Justicar: Bring them back alive?) that allows you to do non-leathal damage without the -4 using a leathal weapon.

These COULD be used in conjunction with a sneak attack. But i'd check with teh DM first.

 

[Tessarael]

The truncheon sounds like what I was looking for. Looking at the Book of Exalted Deeds, 12lb seems ridiculously heavy (not an issue for the character in terms of encumbrance, but it is silly) for the truncheon, though the stats look about right.

Of course, the downside is that you can use Weapon Finesse with a Sap but not a Truncheon. Rather interesting trade-off, though somewhat esoteric. The character is a high-level Fighter/Rogue/Blah with Shortsword: Focus, Improved Critical, Specialization and Melee Weapon Mastery using a Sunblade +3 (i.e. one better than normal) most of the time. The comparison would be something like this, as the character has 5d6 sneak attack.

For two-handed use:
1. Masterwork Truncheon: attacks +26/+21/+16/+11, damage d8+9+5d6 = 31.0 damage/hit.
2. Sunblade: non-lethal attacks vs. non-evil +32/+27/+22/+17 (that is with the -4 for non-lethal factored in), damage d10+16 without power attack = 21.5 damage/hit.
3. Power attacking for the difference in attack score, the Sunblade is: non-lethal attacks vs. non-evil +26/+21/+16/+11, damage d10+32 = 37.5 damage/hit.
4. Masterwork Sap: attacks +31/+26/+21/+16, damage d6+9+5d6 = 30.0 damage/hit.

For single-handed use:
1. Masterwork Truncheon: attacks +26/+21/+16/+11, damage d8+6+5d6 = 28.0 damage/hit.
2. Sunblade: non-lethal attacks vs. non-evil +32/+27/+22/+17 (that is with the -4 for non-lethal factored in), damage d10+13 without power attack = 18.5 damage/hit.
3. Power attacking for the difference in attack score, the Sunblade is: non-lethal attacks vs. non-evil +26/+21/+16/+11, damage d10+21 = 26.5 damage/hit.
4. Masterwork Sap: attacks +31/+26/+21/+16, damage d6+6+5d6 = 27.0 damage/hit.

So the sap is probably the best one-handed option for non-lethal, and using the Sunblade to do non-lethal is the best two-handed option for non-lethal. Only problem of course is that the Sunblade glows brightly - kind of loses the element of surprise!

 

[Tessarael]

So bonus question, any weapons that you can Weapon Finesse, use for non-lethal damage, and use Power Attack with? (Without spending any feats, assuming simple and martial weapon proficiency, and preferably no or limited magic item cost.)

 

[Drowbane]

The truncheon sounds like what I was looking for. Looking at the Book of Exalted Deeds, 12lb seems ridiculously heavy (not an issue for the character in terms of encumbrance, but it is silly) for the truncheon, though the stats look about right.

Of course, the downside is that you can use Weapon Finesse with a Sap but not a Truncheon. Rather interesting trade-off, though somewhat esoteric. The character is a high-level Fighter/Rogue/Blah with Shortsword: Focus, Improved Critical, Specialization and Melee Weapon Mastery using a Sunblade +3 (i.e. one better than normal) most of the time. The comparison would be something like this, as the character has 5d6 sneak attack.

For two-handed use:
1. Masterwork Truncheon: attacks +26/+21/+16/+11, damage d8+9+5d6 = 31.0 damage/hit.
2. Sunblade: non-lethal attacks vs. non-evil +32/+27/+22/+17 (that is with the -4 for non-lethal factored in), damage d10+16 without power attack = 21.5 damage/hit.
3. Power attacking for the difference in attack score, the Sunblade is: non-lethal attacks vs. non-evil +26/+21/+16/+11, damage d10+32 = 37.5 damage/hit.
4. Masterwork Sap: attacks +31/+26/+21/+16, damage d6+9+5d6 = 30.0 damage/hit.

For single-handed use:
1. Masterwork Truncheon: attacks +26/+21/+16/+11, damage d8+6+5d6 = 28.0 damage/hit.
2. Sunblade: non-lethal attacks vs. non-evil +32/+27/+22/+17 (that is with the -4 for non-lethal factored in), damage d10+13 without power attack = 18.5 damage/hit.
3. Power attacking for the difference in attack score, the Sunblade is: non-lethal attacks vs. non-evil +26/+21/+16/+11, damage d10+21 = 26.5 damage/hit.
4. Masterwork Sap: attacks +31/+26/+21/+16, damage d6+6+5d6 = 27.0 damage/hit.

So the sap is probably the best one-handed option for non-lethal, and using the Sunblade to do non-lethal is the best two-handed option for non-lethal. Only problem of course is that the Sunblade glows brightly - kind of loses the element of surprise!

Maybe I'm missing something in the Sunblade description... but how are you getting a Non-lethal Sneak Attack with a sword?

 

[RangerWickett]

So bonus question, any weapons that you can Weapon Finesse, use for non-lethal damage, and use Power Attack with? (Without spending any feats, assuming simple and martial weapon proficiency, and preferably no or limited magic item cost.)

Whip, if you're a bard.

Maybe some sort of limp rapier?

 

[Nifft]

Maybe some sort of limp rapier?

I keep getting email offering pills to fix that...

-- N

 

[Tessarael]

Maybe I'm missing something in the Sunblade description... but how are you getting a Non-lethal Sneak Attack with a sword?

Non-lethal attack for -4 to hit with the Sunblade.

 

[Drowbane]

Non-lethal attack for -4 to hit with the Sunblade.

To prove myself lazy... I'll just steal Hyp's quote from the PHB...

With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.

PHB, under sneak attack.

 

[Tessarael]

Which is why I didn't add 5d6 of Sneak Attack to the damage with the Sunblade.

 

[Ilium]

"GRAAA!! TASTE MY TOOL OF MERCY!"

Sigged, because this needs to live on.