(Noob) D20 Modern: Class system

[eldaen]

Hello all,

having recently purchased the D20 Modern setting, I found the basic rules to be very nice. I have been a GM for ten years now, but I never actually played or GMed a Class System RPG (and only played Character level systems a couple of times). I mostly gamed HârnMaster , Shadowrun, D6, and Vampire.

So now, I do have some troubles with understanding the concept of the class system as a whole. Personally, I am used to distribute character improvements to my players after the have completed something in game, and also, I tend to limit what they can improve to what has been used during the game. So basically what I try to do is to integrate the story into the characters' stats because I put a much stronger emphasis on the story than on the rules.

However, with the class system, the feats etc are much more rigid in a sense that once a character has advanced, he automatically receives certain bonuses, whether he has done anything in that direction or not. Now the only way to incorporate the story then to me would be to adjust the story to the class advancements to come and sort of "prepare" those "level-ups" story-wise. However, this might become rather difficult when gaming with four players or so and also, this might mean having to adjust the story to the rules - which I am not prepared to do. That would seem a little like putting the horse before the cart to me...

Please note that this is not meant as a criticism towards the D20 Modern system - it's just that I have troubles getting a firm grip of the concept of character classes... (i.e. how to bring it in-line with the story - not with the rules themselves - I think I understand those)

Is there any advice you could give?

Thanks in advance...

 

[jmucchiello]

You are overthinking it. Not all time spent training happens at the table. Even if the adventure does not include any time where the player climbs something doesn't he doesn't spend his off hours on a rock wall. Thus when he levels up if he wants to spend skill points on climbing skill don't stop him. Similarly, just because the character is about become a crack shot at firing into melee (the precise shot feat) doesn't mean he needs to do this in combat the previous adventure. Such shooting can also be learned on the firing range.

Class are archetypes, short-hand descriptors of a character's abilities. They don't exist "in-game" and more so than you Strength score.

The real difference you will need to get hold off is that the players control their character's development far more than the GM does compared to the games you are use to. Let it go. It's one less thing you have to think about. Thus you don't have to tailor your next session to work in tightrope walking because Bob said it would be really cool if I could tightrope walk. You just include a tightrope walking scene when it makes sense in the story.

 

[palleomortis]

You are overthinking it. Not all time spent training happens at the table. Even if the adventure does not include any time where the player climbs something doesn't he doesn't spend his off hours on a rock wall. Thus when he levels up if he wants to spend skill points on climbing skill don't stop him. Similarly, just because the character is about become a crack shot at firing into melee (the precise shot feat) doesn't mean he needs to do this in combat the previous adventure. Such shooting can also be learned on the firing range.

Exactly. I had a player ask me a while back if he could get some "complimentry" feats if he were to practice the feat in his off time. The reply, wich I had to look up somewhere to explain, was that it is assumed that you practice in the off time as it is. That is to say, you can't up your STR becuase your character went to the gym everyother day. It's assumed that he did somthing of the sort, merely to maintain his current STR. Thus, if your locked in a dungeon, or some other restricted space, for a vast amount of time, your Str. would inevitably go down. The best way to put it is that it was assumed to have taken place, whether the player dictated it or not.

 

[Dioltach]

One of my players has the habit of claiming, "But we're trained professionals, we should be able to do that!" My response is, "Yes, and your training is reflected by your skills and feats. If you don't have the skill or feat, you don't have the training."

Eldaen, I think you're confusing story-based character development and rules-based character development, which are two very different things. Rules-based development gives the players more control over their characters, and gives the GM an indication of what the players want and so allows the players to have a greater impact on the story. Don't worry too much about how the characters get their training: it's an abstract mechanism to allow the game to concentrate more on the action/adventure side than on the character development side.

 

[roguerouge]

Also, my experience as a player is that players tend to have their characters specialize as the game goes on. At the early levels, you're still figuring out your character and your role in the party. After a few adventures, you realize that your role in the party is wheel man, ranged combat support guy, and mechanic.

If you let them, most players will eventually take on the burden of providing a narrative justification for the way that their characters grow.

 

[Kheti sa-Menik]

<snip>

If you let them, most players will eventually take on the burden of providing a narrative justification for the way that their characters grow.

BAM!

Hit the nail on the head, QFT.

 

[eldaen]

So basically, adventures should consist of "highlight" episodes with a certain amount of time in between which the characters can spend on their improvements (i.e. have a certain time pass so that the players can come up with a narrative justification)? Hm... I always tended to run campaigns with no time in between or rather tended to play out the time in between. The approach you guys suggested is new to me but somehow seems to have an internal logic that might solve my problem. This would mean that with D20, the actual gaming sessions do not play such a great role in character (statistics) advancement, but rather offer opportunities for the characters to shine with their skills and abilities? Am I getting this right?

Oh, and thanks a lot for your quick responses!

 

[Stormborn]

Yes, adventures are intended as a time when the PCs get to shine through the use of skills and abilities. There are a lot of assumptions made in a class based system, exactly what they are is up to your campaign. In d20 Modern its easy to say "My character goes to the gym/library/shooting range during his off time" to justify any mechancial advancement that leveling up provides. Its just as easy in a fantasy based game. The rogue retroactively says he has been studying a book of magic around the camp fire at night, the fighter says he has been practicing a new sword technique, etc. In any game there is time where the PCs are not 'on' - they are making camp, hanging around town, or whatever and when it comes time to make choices about skills, feats, and class abilities you they can always say they were doing something toward that in their off time.

Now, if it makes you feel better there are a few things you can do to make things feel a little more organic:
1) do not award XP but simply tell the players their PCs level up when you feel it is appropriate for them to do so, typically after they have accomplished a certain goal or after a given amount of time in game
2) award XP but tell the players that their PCs can only level up or take skills/feats in "associated" areas, as defined by your campaign, unless the campaign has reached a point where sufficient in character down time would allow them to multiclass or branch out into new areas (this would be most appropriate for the 'trapped in a dungeon/jungle/alien space craft for weeks' kind of game)
3) discuss with the players the kind of campaign you intend to run and the kinds of challanges they may face and ask them to plan out character advancement a few levels in advance, allowing you and them to make appropriate plans in game (this does, however, require a degree of transperancy and metathinking about the game that some may not feel comfortable playing).

As others have said, don't over think it. Even detailed characters can have things in their background that are not reflected on their sheets or in actual game time. These things may not have played a significant part in their life for a while but might crop back up. Just remember that most skills, class features, and feats that can be taken without any kind of background are not going to make a big impact on the PCs stats. 4 ranks in Disable Device does not suddenly make you a master safe cracker nor does Point Blank Shot make you a gunfighter and a single level of Charismatic Hero can just mean that you are likeable fellow who has learned how to get you way in some situation and not that you can sell ice to polar bears.