D&D (2024) Not a fan of the new Eldritch Knight

So as to useful choices for an EK, I currently like fitting Arcana and Jeweler's Tools in somehow. Then for 50gp craft a Ruby of the Warmage (wondrous item, common, requires attunement by a spellcaster), stick it to your bonded weapon and you're done.

Etched with eldritch runes, this 1-inch-diameter ruby allows you to use a simple or martial weapon as a spellcasting focus for your spells. For this property to work, you must attach the ruby to the weapon by pressing the ruby against it for at least 10 minutes. Thereafter, the ruby can't be removed unless you detach it as an action or the weapon is destroyed. Not even an anti-magic field causes it to fall off. The ruby does fall off the weapon if your attunement to the ruby ends.​
Having to use an attunement slot on something that basically allows you to work around arbitrary restrictions on your subclass features is painful, though...
 

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Having to use an attunement slot on something that basically allows you to work around arbitrary restrictions on your subclass features is painful, though...
I just assume the resection is intended.

Making 3 weapon attacks and 4 Eldritch Blast with +1d8 spirit shroud * 2 action surge attack would be too much.
Vs
Valor bard with 1 weapon attack and 4 Eldritch Blast.

And let's he honest. Eldritch Blast is the cantrip that people are complaining about. Not the lack of access to thorn whip.

*and I am ignoring upcast CME because that has to be a mistake. It works fine if scaled more appropriately.
 

Just for clarification, the examples I am thinking of here (and have played) are dissimilar from those I discussed in my #357 where I posited a character using multiple spellcasting abilities. I posited that only in order to see what must be true given the actual workings of the game mechanics.

The times I see the same spell taken multiple ways in play are for dichotomous benefits like "I want to have a free cast of X and I want to be able to cast it using Sorcery Points" which can come up for an Aberrant Mind. So it's not -- I want to use multiple ability scores -- it's "I want to avail of dichotomous benefits."

But you aren't actually gaining any benefit. I guess unless you are a Wizard and you have no choice in changing spell selection.

But let's stick with a Sorcerer for a moment. Let us say that you take Invisibility at level 3, then at level 4 you take Shadow-Touched to get a free casting of Invisibility. Well, Shadow-Touched says "You always have that spell and the Invisibility spell prepared. You can cast each of these spells without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either spell in this way, you can't cast that spell in this way again until you finish a Long Rest. You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells' spellcasting ability is the ability increased by this feat."

So, you "forget" Invisbility as a Sorcerer spell, as you are allowed to do here "Changing Your Prepared Spells. Whenever you gain a Sorcerer level, you can replace one spell on your list with another Sorcerer spell for which you have spell slots." and learn a different spell.

If you were to hypothesize a Sorcerer Subclass that gave Invisibility as a Subclass spell, then I suppose in this instance you would have the spell from two sources, but again, this is distinctly a situation where the player has no choice in the matter if they want Shadow-Touched. But as long as you have a choice, since the spell is always prepared and you can cast it with your spell slots as normal, you gain no benefit from learning it via the feat and taking it as a prepared spell, and personally as a homebrew, I would be quite tempted to simply allow the character who is "Stuck" with getting the same spell twice via a subclass static list, to swap that spell with a spell of the same level. Otherwise is feels like you are gaining less for your choices than otherwise intended, to me personally.
 

I just assume the resection is intended.

Making 3 weapon attacks and 4 Eldritch Blast with +1d8 spirit shroud * 2 action surge attack would be too much.
Vs
Valor bard with 1 weapon attack and 4 Eldritch Blast.

And let's he honest. Eldritch Blast is the cantrip that people are complaining about. Not the lack of access to thorn whip.

*and I am ignoring upcast CME because that has to be a mistake. It works fine if scaled more appropriately.

I agree, and I think this is better handled by just talking to the player at your table and restricting Eldritch Blast.

I think it would be neat to allow a character who took Magic Initiate and grabbed Spare the dying, to represent a healing side to their EK being able to cast that spell for an attack, and the singular issue is dipping a level of warlock and getting access to Eldritch Blast (and a warlock dip is the only way) and I feel like just having a conversation with the player about that singular interaction being too powerful and not something you want at the table to be fine. Or compromise and offer to let the Eldritch Blast deal 4d10 to a single target, instead of making 4 additional attacks, as a 4d10 force damage at long range is still pretty darn good for an EK.
 

I agree, and I think this is better handled by just talking to the player at your table and restricting Eldritch Blast.
If someone asks me to use EK with spare the dying I would allow it. (Though I would also suggest they might want to play a paladin).

Pretty much any cantrip but Eldritch Blast, I would allow.

But it would be very awkward if the rules said "cast a cantrip except Eldritch Blast".

And if you wanted 4d10 to a single target, you have firebolt. And you dip 3 levels into evocation wizard and deal half on a miss, which is quite nice.
 

But let's stick with a Sorcerer for a moment. Let us say that you take Invisibility at level 3, then at level 4 you take Shadow-Touched to get a free casting of Invisibility. Well, Shadow-Touched says "You always have that spell and the Invisibility spell prepared. You can cast each of these spells without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either spell in this way, you can't cast that spell in this way again until you finish a Long Rest. You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells' spellcasting ability is the ability increased by this feat."

So, you "forget" Invisbility as a Sorcerer spell, as you are allowed to do here "Changing Your Prepared Spells. Whenever you gain a Sorcerer level, you can replace one spell on your list with another Sorcerer spell for which you have spell slots." and learn a different spell.

If you were to hypothesize a Sorcerer Subclass that gave Invisibility as a Subclass spell, then I suppose in this instance you would have the spell from two sources, but again, this is distinctly a situation where the player has no choice in the matter if they want Shadow-Touched. But as long as you have a choice, since the spell is always prepared and you can cast it with your spell slots as normal, you gain no benefit from learning it via the feat and taking it as a prepared spell, and personally as a homebrew, I would be quite tempted to simply allow the character who is "Stuck" with getting the same spell twice via a subclass static list, to swap that spell with a spell of the same level. Otherwise is feels like you are gaining less for your choices than otherwise intended, to me personally.
At 3rd-level gain dissonant whispers from Aberrant Sorcerer and then at 4th-level take it again from Fey-touched. At 6th-level you'll have a free cast, a cast using 1 Sorcery Point requiring no components, and normal casts using spell slots.
 

If someone asks me to use EK with spare the dying I would allow it. (Though I would also suggest they might want to play a paladin).

Pretty much any cantrip but Eldritch Blast, I would allow.

But it would be very awkward if the rules said "cast a cantrip except Eldritch Blast".

And if you wanted 4d10 to a single target, you have firebolt. And you dip 3 levels into evocation wizard and deal half on a miss, which is quite nice.

I agree it would be awkward as a rule, that is why it is better for homebrew and table restrictions. This sort of "technically you can, but it would make a mess of things" situation is exactly what those conversations are meant for.
 

At 3rd-level gain dissonant whispers from Aberrant Sorcerer and then at 4th-level take it again from Fey-touched. At 6th-level you'll have a free cast, a cast using 1 Sorcery Point requiring no components, and normal casts using spell slots.

Right, so you have NO CHOICE to retrain Dissonant Whispers, exactly like I said.
 

I agree it would be awkward as a rule, that is why it is better for homebrew and table restrictions. This sort of "technically you can, but it would make a mess of things" situation is exactly what those conversations are meant for.
Nah.
It's easier to say yes, I will allow it.
than say no, I ban that one specific thing.

Makes the DM a hero instead of villain.
 

Right, so you have NO CHOICE to retrain Dissonant Whispers, exactly like I said.
I'm not sure what you mean. Outside of feats and class features, generally for multiclassing

Each spell you prepare is associated with one of your classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you cast the spell.​
Which also means you can end up with copies of the same spell cast at different attack / DCs.
 

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