D&D 5E Not Again! Retreater Needs to Balance 5e for 7 Players

Reynard

Legend
Some things specifically I'm asking:
  1. Do I try an alternate group-based Initiative?
I think you should do side based initiative just because most players are new. That way they can coordinate, which is more fun.
  1. Do we go "theatre of the mind," battle grid, or use something in between?
I would use the grid but play pretty loose with square counting and stuff. Folks want to see it, and like the idea of tactics, but get disappointedwhen the cool thing theywanted to do is ruined by 5 feet of movement.
  1. How do I add enough challenge to give all the players something to do?
The most important thing of all in 5e is action economy. My advice is that "light encounters" have fewer enemies than PCs and "heavy encounters" have equal or more enemies than PCs. A boss plus minions equalling PCs is pretty good for a final fight.

Don't forget terrain and hazards, though! They are a key part of the D&D experience.
 

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For initiative, just go around the table clockwise one battle and counter-clockwise the next. Mix in the NPC's turns, one after each player and any extra at the end.

Use a battlemap/grid with mini's. Something visual to keep their attention and so they can visualize what's going on it going to help.
 

I agree with others: Sunless Citadel is a long adventure, designed to take characters from 1-3rd level. It's also a grounded adventure designed to be taken seriously. If your players are inattentive and drunken you probably want something a bit wackier to grab their attention.

Since you have Tales from the Yawning Portal, I suggest The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan. Run it as a gauntlet - if your character dies you are out. Make it competitive - the player who survives longest with the most loot is the winner. If you can find it, download a copy of the original scorecard. The "poison gas" is a real world timer -if they don't complete in the allotted time everyone dies. If they spend to long hesitating remind them about the gas.

Definitely use pregens. I suggest 4th level. Give each pregen a picture. A picture is worth a 1000 words when it comes to getting everyone roleplaying quickly.
 
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BookTenTiger

He / Him
If you are already familiar with the Sunless Citadel, you could do a one-shot by starting the adventure with the encounter with Meepo. Helping Meepo recapture the dragon would be a really fun way to spend an evening.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
@Retreater Man! you are a sucker for punishment. I am not sure I would go with the Sunless Citadel for a oneshot, it is very encounter heavy.
With 7 players you can practically double every encounter. Large D&D parties are incredibly resilient.
Though
If you are already familiar with the Sunless Citadel, you could do a one-shot by starting the adventure with the encounter with Meepo. Helping Meepo recapture the dragon would be a really fun way to spend an evening.
This is a good idea.
 

Retreater

Legend
Man! you are a sucker for punishment. I am not sure I would go with the Sunless Citadel for a oneshot, it is very encounter heavy.
I wasn't intending it to be a one shot. We were getting together occasionally with 4 players, and I was going to start Sunless Citadel with them to run over the next few months.
But now 3 more players are coming, and I don't know what to do with it.
 


Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
I really do think side-based or go-around-the-circle initiative is best.

Important: I love the cooperation of group initiative where the PCs go in order they choose, but with seven mostly inexperienced players I think that's going to be too much debate and eat too much time. Instead, have them roll initiative as normal but that ONLY determines who goes first. Once the winner is determined, do like LordEntrails suggested- it goes around the table in a circle just like a traditional boardgame. Either clockwise every time (with the monsters going based on the DM's seat), or alternating between clockwise and counter-clockwise from fight to fight. You may also want to consider Always On initiative like Shadowdark, to impose some order on exploration activities and enforce some spotlight sharing.

Important: I agree with Tony that trying to go Theater of the Mind will be too time consuming and annoying. You want minis and visual representations everyone can refer to rather than having to repeat descriptions over and over and remind players who've had a drink or two of who is standing where every single time. I think Overgeeked is right that you don't want to get too fiddly and detailed with it, though. You don't necessarily have to do strict grid movement, but at least use minis or tokens to show the formation/general shape of the rooms, and which PCs are engaged with which monsters and standing next to which other PCs for area effects and when traps happen.

Good ideas: I think Dave2008's ideas of imposing a timer and of having players roll to defend instead of the DM rolling to attack may be good ones too. These two ideas help keep the pace up when it's a given person's turn and keeps players attentive when it's not their turn.

Less important: In terms of a timer this might also be a good time to try out a Torch Timer from Shadowdark- use an alarm with the torch burning out every hour. Maybe have the alarm go off after 50 minutes, at which point you warn the players that the torch is burning low, and then hit Snooze for 10 minutes and have it actually go out after that. If you don't do a torch timer, it could still be good and add a sense of urgency if you roll for a random encounter after a fixed period of real time. Again, have an audible alarm go off. Keep time and tension in their minds.
 
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Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
I agree with others: Sunless Citadel is a long adventure, designed to take characters from 1-3rd level. It's also a grounded adventure designed to be taken seriously. If your players are inattentive and drunken you probably want something a bit wackier to grab their attention.

Since you have Tales from the Yawning Portal, I suggest The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan. Run it as a gauntlet - if your character dies you are out. Make it competitive - the player who survives longest with the most loot is the winner. If you can find it, download a copy of the original scorecard. The "poison gas" is a real world timer -if they don't complete in the allotted time everyone dies. If they spend to long hesitating remind them about the gas.
Good thoughts.

Definitely use pregens. I suggest 4th level. Give each pregen a picture. A picture is worth a 1000 words when it comes to getting everyone roleplaying quickly.
I definitely agree with 4th or lower, but I'd lean more toward 2nd or 3rd, I think, just to keep it simpler.

A portrait is great. I also recommend an in-character quote. A pithy piece of dialogue. One of my favorite convention DMs does this. Has the players pick characters based on a card showing a picture, a quote, and the race & class, so people don't burn a ton of time looking through character sheets in detail. He also has everyone roll a d20 for pick order, again to speed things up and counteract the tendency of some players to be polite and defer and slow down the process.
 


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