D&D 5E Not Again! Retreater Needs to Balance 5e for 7 Players

[GMMichael]

If you're running a module, double the number of monsters in all encounters. Baseline 5E combat is a cakewalk. You have slightly less than double the assumed number of PCs. So doubling the monsters will fractionally increase the difficulty compared to the baseline. Adjust from there if necessary.

3) Increase the number of goobers they're fighting - roughly double. But don't over concentrate your forces any more than you would for half the players. Example: If the initial combat encounter was for 3 kobolds, make it 6. But don't gang up more than 3 on any one of the PCs because that's the most you could have done that with if you only had the original numbers (doubling the encounter numbers but ganging all 6 of the kobolds up on one PC would really shift the terms of the encounter).

These are probably great power-level considerations, but what about player engagement? I barely want to wait for 6 other players to take their turns, much less 6-14 kobolds. Sure, you can speed up a turn to, "Hit. Move. Okay you're done." Which, yes, seems like brand-name D&D to me, but is not something to write home about. I'd cap the number of monsters at the number of PCs (and I know someone's going to want to play a ranger with a companion and play a summoner), and increase monster damage first, then maybe HP, to add difficulty.

I am not familiar with the adventure, but with that many players I think you will have to increase the difficulty of the encounters, even for casual players.

Also, to keep people interested / things moving quickly I have two suggestions:

1. Use the players roll option in the DMG. Instead of you rolling the monster attacks the players roll to defend. Saves you time and keeps the players engaged.
2. Alternately or in addition: set a time limit for players to resolve their turn. People seem to frown on this idea in D&D circles, but I think it adds a lot of excitement to the game and people outside of D&D are normally OK with time limits (a lot of games have them). Personally we allow 30 sec. for a person to resolve their turn and it has work really well for us since we started doing it in 4e, so much so we continued in 5e.

So, yeah. This sounds perfect!

 

[billd91]

These are probably great power-level considerations, but what about player engagement? I barely want to wait for 6 other players to take their turns, much less 6-14 kobolds. Sure, you can speed up a turn to, "Hit. Move. Okay you're done." Which, yes, seems like brand-name D&D to me, but is not something to write home about. I'd cap the number of monsters at the number of PCs (and I know someone's going to want to play a ranger with a companion and play a summoner), and increase monster damage first, then maybe HP, to add difficulty.

Reasonable concerns, but I think different methods of rebalancing encounters for differing numbers of players can be better suited for some levels than others. For example, I'd be wary of increasing a kobold's damage output in a low level game because PCs are less likely to be able to withstand significantly increased damage. But I think it would work quite well for low-CR monsters/NPCs and mid-level PCs.

One of the big benefits of increasing monster numbers is it reduces the impact of action economy differentials, though it is true that it can get cumbersome. Increasing hit points can also, sort of, assuming you're increasing the hit points enough to soak up the extra actions coming from the PCs. But it's limited to just damage, not the application of conditions. So it's also possible that the best methods will depend on how your players play. For a group that might be not the most focused, increasing hp might be a very good method since they're probably most focused on attacking/damaging rather than debuffing and tougher, fewer opponents might really fit the bill since you will keep engagement relatively high.

 

[Nightfly]

Since you have Tales from the Yawning Portal, I suggest The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan. Run it as a gauntlet - if your character dies you are out. Make it competitive - the player who survives longest with the most loot is the winner. If you can find it, download a copy of the original scorecard. The "poison gas" is a real world timer -if they don't complete in the allotted time everyone dies. If they spend to long hesitating remind them about the gas.

This is a pretty cool idea. And Hidden Shrine gets my vote as one the best 10 adventures in the entire history of D&D, hands down. It's a masterpiece. If you do it, make sure to download and print the original "show-the-players" illustrations from the 1980 module to give to your players. That's the coolest thing about the adventure.

That said, Sunless Citadel is also on most people's top ten lists, so that's also a fine choice.

 

[TheSword]

Pick something with more roleplay. Go with Murkmire Conspiracy from keys from the Golden Vault.

Or if you fancy a good mystery/small dungeon/exploration The Doom of Daggerdale and convert it…. Dry simple.

Or run the thieves hideout from LMOP

 

[Redwizard007]

With 7 players, I'd lean towards something heavy on social interaction, and light on combat and exploration. Social situations can involve more players at once, which limits down time for everyone.

Maybe the PCs are part of a trade caravan. Some could be travelers or pilgrims that were adopted by the caravan for safety. Others could be merchants, craftsmen, guards, etc. You can describe the world around them, let them interact with farmers, other travelers, and the original caravan group. After a bit, survivors of a goblin ambush stumble across the path. Now we get new role-playing and probably a fight, as they force their way through a pass, or over a bridge. More RP, and then we get to our destination.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Pick something with more roleplay. Go with Murkmire Conspiracy from keys from the Golden Vault.

Or if you fancy a good mystery/small dungeon/exploration The Doom of Daggerdale and convert it…. Dry simple.

Or run the thieves hideout from LMOP

Murkmire Conspiracy went very badly for my players, ending with most of the party being arrested. I wouldn't recommend it for new players.

The setting is also a bit modern for a "classic" D&D feel, which the OP mentions as being desirable.

 

[aco175]

If you have not started the actual module and have the base 4 PCs already, they just add 3 more and side quest for a night. I ran the Delian's Tomb from MCDM for 7 younger scouts and it went fine. There were pre-made PCs and I ran initiative by having everyone roll, but only took the highest to go first and then go around the table. This adventure took a night to play and can be inserted before Sunless someplace and even throw in some information to foreshadow. There are even printable maps online to use as a grid. It is rather simple and easy. I might make larger encounter areas though as we had a couple places where 7 PCs and monsters were too bunched.

If you are already at the Sunless module, then have the other people be another adventuring party that shows up to help for the night or are already in the dungeon and the first group meets up with them. Then just take the next few encounters and add more monsters and a larger room to fight in. You might even have a player say that it sure was great that the other met them since that part of the dungeon was too hard for just 4 of us.

For my home game and for a wedding game I had 7 players for, I track initiative with one of the table poles with clothes pins that have the PCs name on them. I have one of those extendable things with a magnet on the end for picking up screws that fall into the engine compartment when working on your car. It is easy to move the PCs and I just place it in the middle of the table for the players to arrange. You can even have one player be in charge of it and tell the others who it up next.

 

[Gorck]

For initiative, just go around the table clockwise one battle and counter-clockwise the next. Mix in the NPC's turns, one after each player and any extra at the end.

Use a battlemap/grid with mini's. Something visual to keep their attention and so they can visualize what's going on it going to help.

Or an even simpler way to do initiative that still allows the players’ Dexterity and Initiative modifiers to matter: at the start of combat, have everyone roll as normal, but use standard board game rules. Whoever rolls highest goes first, then proceed clockwise around the table.

That way, it’s easier for the players to tell when their next turn is and who goes next after that. But also, they still get to have the fun of rolling, and the order isn’t the same every time (punishing some people for where they happened to sit).

 

[Retreater]

Thanks for all the advice. Still going to admit, I'm a little nervous.
I did learn that two of the players will be unable to make it tonight due to family issues, so that will leave a more manageable 5 players - only 1 of whom is completely new.

 

[FrogReaver]

Thanks for all the advice. Still going to admit, I'm a little nervous.
I did learn that two of the players will be unable to make it tonight due to family issues, so that will leave a more manageable 5 players - only 1 of whom is completely new.

Yea - I think 5 players is way more desirable than 7.