NOT AN EDITION WARS THREAD: 1E'ing 3E

[JeffB]

I don't want this to turn into a edition wars thread, please

What I would like to ask is how would you make the 3.x game feel more like 1E in play.

By this I don't mean, adding racial level limits or making up a new XP chart for each class.

By this I mean: What would you add or change mechanically or thematically with the rules to make 3.x graviate more towards the 1E/OD&D type feel (I know..I know..somewhat of an intangible, but humor me )

e.g.

Might you alter the EL/CR/XP system? Change the power curve?

What feats would you add/delete/modify? (e.g. remove some of the more extravagant combat feats for fighters...nix or possibly modify item creation feats for Magic-Use...errr..Wizards..etc)

Modifications to some of the more classic/common spells?

Add/delete/modify some class abilities to certain classes? get rid of some classes period?

deletion of entire subsystems? Not someting like "skills", as the rogue would get hosed...but perhaps..and this is just an example...AoOs...or add in a different initiative system?

These are the type of things I'm interested in hearing from the ENworld community. I realize much of 1E's appeal was in Gygax's writing style..or the various original module writers. And that it was influenced heavily by the classic fantasy literary sources and did not have modern fantasy/sci-fantasy/sci-fi and anime styles influnces whatsoever. These types of things certainly had alot of impact. But I'm more interested in rules applications.

And yes I know about and own C&C. I'm asking specifically about changes to the current D&D rules system.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Psion]

I personally am not at all interested in reverting mechanically in any great way.

I do feel that 3e departs from some concepts as they existed in 3e, and either have considered or have done changes to creatures, spells, etc., to realize the feel of the original creature.

I've already mentioned I don't like some devil conversions in FC2... I intend to pull my old books of the shelf and get some of their orignial abilities back. The ultroloth is a similar case. As originally written in the 1e MMII, the Ultrodaemon had an ability to summon nearly anything. I might not give all Ultroloth's this ability, but at the least, I plan to throw in something that lends some credence to a sage who might claim that.

Also, many outsiders had psionics in 1e; this seemed to go away in 2e and 3e. I plan to take some demons and apply the psionic template to them (From Book of Templates: Deluxe Edition) to give some of these back.

At one time, I was really pro racial class limits. I'm considering a variant of that, but it won't look anything like 1e. But were you to try that, you could forbid certain classes to certain races, like restricting halflings and dwarves from being arcane casters.

Foclucan lyrist was a nice nod at a 1e bard.

 

[molonel]

I will never again be a 12-year old reading through a 1st Edition book. Even now, when I read through forums by people who are still playing 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D, they sound more like 3rd Edition gamers than anything I ever experienced in the 6th grade. Heck, the fact that I'm even reading an internet forum about D&D boggles my mind.

Anything that smooths out rules calls and gets rid of math will make it feel more like 1st Edition. Slash the XP chart in half, and slow advancement, so that 10th level feels like REAL ULTIMATE POWER!!!! Take a CR 10 dragon, and consider that the most powerful dragon in the world. Ogres instead of giants, or hill giants at best. Make it feel smaller, and by smaller, I don't mean inferior.

 

[Crothian]

I just slow down the rate the players get XP and run 1e modules.

 

[mmadsen]

What I would like to ask is how would you make the 3.x game feel more like 1E in play.

"Old school" D&D didn't have everything laid out quite so mechanically, and playing the game was often more free-form than the modern game. Instead of "Roll a spot check," you'd get, "No, you don't find anything in the pile of straw." If you're of an old-school mindset, you can play that way even with the new rules, of course.

Similarly, you don't need to change the EL/CR/XP rules to maintain the old flavor; you simply throw out the assumption that most encounters will be "appropriate" for the party, and you expect the party to run away when overpowered.

When it comes to combat, I know many people already ignore the battle grid and play Attacks of Opportunity the old way -- a simple free attack if the other guy runs away or does something unwise in combat.

 

[Alzrius]

Use OSRIC. The Old-School Resource Index Compilation is essentially the 3.5 SRD broken down into pieces, and then restructured so as to very closely approximate 1E. It even has several d20 companies now publishing supplements and adventures for it.

 

[WayneLigon]

Honestly, no-one has ever explained to my satisfaction how the 'feel' of 3E differs from 1E except as far as magical treasure goes. If you want a more 1E-like game, take out all the metamagic and item creation feats. That's about the only significant 'feel' I can think of that you could replicate mechanically.

 

[greywulf]

1. Toss out your miniatures, battlemaps and everything to do with AoO. Play using your imagination not plastic and cardboard. Wave your arms around a lot. Talk in funny voices.
2. Add random encounter tables
3. Avoid PrCs where possible
4. Strictly limit the classes that demihumans can take. Call them demihumans. To their face.
5. Use monsters as written. Don't give them class levels. They are to be killed, not teach you things.
6. Avoid multi-classing. Unless you're a human, and have Very High Stats.
7. Allow demihumans to use gestalt characters but not multi-class (maybe).

Aside from that, I don't think there's anything mechanically you'd need to do with the rules

Oh, and dig out old copies of Dungeon and Dragon magazines.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Bring back the negative effects of spells, such as aging, system shock, etc, along with real level draining. Make casting polymorph and haste dangerous. Make 10th level fighters affraid of 2 hd wights. Cap HD at 10. And ac at 30 for most things. Dragons, demons, etc might be an exception.

 

[Psion]

1. Toss out your miniatures, battlemaps and everything to do with AoO.

A big chunk of the minis I use are 1e minis.