Not Everyone is Interested in Powergaming [merged]

[jodyjohnson]

Divine Metamagic?

Using turning attempts to Persistant major combat buffs I'd guess.

 

[molonel]

There are DMs who hate powergaming or efficient builds because the PCs cannot be kowtowed by any low level commoner with a stick. Diff'nt strokes I suppose.

Ah yes, the Wallow in the Lovely Filth campaign setting. Also known as a "Pinkeye" game, where your character can die from a scratch from a rusty nail.

I have a friend - a good friend, actually - who loves to run this sort of game. He truly believes, without a trace of irony, that everyone in his campaign world should be afraid of a group of peasants with pitchforks.

 

[buzz]

Add me to the list of people wondering what "DMM" means and where "Stormwind Fallacy" came from. Googling seems to indicate the latter is rooted in NWN fandom, but I dunno.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Which is a fancy way of saying: If you believe that divine metamagic persistent spell cleric using nightsticks from libre mortis are a minimally competent build necessary for a character to "succeed at tasks, wins fights, and helps the party" then while I cannot be 100% sure you are a munchkin, I do highly suspect that you would not fit well in my game- my game in which players DO succeed at tasks, win fights, and help one another, all without the aid of divine metamagic persistent spells fueled with nightsticks.

I don't believe you need the DMM cleric build described above, no. For one thing, I'm not actually familiar with that particular build.

With that said, the best D&D campaign I ever played in chewed up and spit out optimized characters, and most anything below their level was essentially a drain on party resources. Almost every encounter was EL +6-+8 or so, and surviving even one session meant you were both lucky and good. The GM had a compelling plot and some intense roleplaying encounters wrapped around these incredibly challenging battles, but at the end of the day, you earned ongoing participation in the plot by overcoming intense design challenges at the character creation phase and tactical challenges at the games table.

It's not how I'd want every game to go, or even every game of D&D, but it was an absolute blast while it lasted, and for that campaign, if you weren't breaking combos from 3-4 books, chances were you were going to be monster chow.

 

[Hammerhead]

DMM = Divine MetaMagic; a cleric using this build uses Divine Metamagic combined with Persistent Spell, good CHA, possibly Extra Turning, Nightsticks, etc. to boost their number of turning attempts per day to a very high number. They then use Persistent Spell to make their Divine Powers, Righteous Mights, and other good buffs last all day. Then they kick serious ass.

The Stormwind Fallacy is a post on WotC boards that pretty much says that powergaming and roleplaying are not mutually exclusive activities.

 

[Henry]

I think the Stormwind Fallacy came originally from the Wizards of the Coast boards - name of a poster there and elsewhere, I believe.

As for a "DMM Build" -- they're referring to the Feat Divine Metamagic, which lets a cleric spontaneously pay for the level boost of a single preselected metamagic feat with turn attempts. Example: I, as a cleric, take Persistent spell, which uses a slot six levels higher. The next feat I take is Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell).

At the cost of SEVEN turning attempts (1 + the six needed for persistent), I can make my highest level spells persistent (things like Righteous Might, Divine Power, etc.). THAT is the "DMM Buiild", and a supposed example of powergaming.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Add me to the list of people wondering what "DMM" means and where "Stormwind Fallacy" came from. Googling seems to indicate the latter is rooted in NWN fandom, but I dunno.

DMM is slang for "divine metamagic." I'm not familiar with the specific build, but it involves using the Divine Metamagic feat from Complete Divine to turn turning/day into Persistent Spell buffs.

"Stormwind Fallacy" comes from the Wizards boards, to the best of my knowledge.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch!

So, I may as well address Henry's last statement. Most Divine Metamagic builds combo with Extra Turning to get a ton of daily turning attempts. The one referenced here appears to be using an item (Nightsticks?) from Libris Mortis, which I gather gives you turning attempts (perhaps it's an x/day item, so it doesn't get ruinously expensive?).

The idea that Divine Metamagic tricks are 'universally known to anyone who isn't a new player' - not to mention a specific build drawing on at least four books - seems, frankly, a little off the wall. OK, more than a little.

 

[WizarDru]

Add me to the list of people wondering what "DMM" means and where "Stormwind Fallacy" came from. Googling seems to indicate the latter is rooted in NWN fandom, but I dunno.

Ditto. Never heard of either, prior to this thread.

 

[wingsandsword]

I'm also somebody who has never heard of a "DMM build", if it has something to do with Divine Metamagic, I'm vaguely aware of the concept of Divine Metamagic, and I know it's powerful in theory, but I've never played in a game where anybody bothered to use it.

I'm also one of those people who comes up with a character concept, then tries to figure out what combination of race/class and feats/skills fits that character best.

 

[Nifft]

DMM is universally known amongst those who hang out (or just lurk) in the WotC board's Character Optimization forum.

Same deal with the stormwind thingy.

Cheers, -- N