Not Everyone is Interested in Powergaming [merged]

[Remathilis]

Yeah I hate it when my PC succeeds at tasks, wins fights and helps the party. What kind of lame role-playing is that?! Success has no place in Despair & Deficiencies.

Laments (with emphasis on the lame), -- N

There are DMs who hate powergaming or efficient builds because the PCs cannot be kowtowed by any low level commoner with a stick. Diff'nt strokes I suppose.

 

[shurai]

I don't need to powergame, just as long as I hold my own in a group I'm fine. If they are all powergamers, I'll PG with 'em. If they are underoptimized, I can do that too.

Its inequality, not powergaming, that irks me.

That reminds me of another curious phenomenon: I find that so much perceived inequality on paper doesn't bear out at the gaming table. Again and again I've seen mechanically mediocre characters accomplish all sorts of useful stuff in an adventure by good roleplaying, while powergamed characters (mine, often enough) blunder around making dumb mistakes.

I should pre-empt one line of reasoning -- good roleplaying in this case has been both reasonable appeals to the DM (say, having an insight about some NPC and leveraging that in conversation with him or her), and also creative, but entirely correct, use of in-game circumstances that don't necessary strong connections to the rules. An example of the latter might be overturning a cart to block a road, or the like.

 

[Oryan77]

I saw a couple other people ask the same thing, what is a DMM build? No one has answered that question and I'm curious to know also

 

[Doug McCrae]

I should pre-empt one line of reasoning -- good roleplaying in this case has been both reasonable appeals to the DM (say, having an insight about some NPC and leveraging that in conversation with him or her), and also creative, but entirely correct, use of in-game circumstances that don't necessary strong connections to the rules. An example of the latter might be overturning a cart to block a road, or the like.

To me 'good roleplaying' = good acting. I'd call overturning the cart creative thinking. The part of the game where you overcome challenges, by whatever means, is, to me, completely separate, and antithetical to, the roleplaying part of the game.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I have no idea what a ddm build is.

Been playing since 1988...and I also have no idea what a "DMM" build is.

I saw a couple other people ask the same thing, what is a DMM build? No one has answered that question and I'm curious to know also

NOOOOOOOOOBS!

 

[Nifft]

There are DMs who hate powergaming or efficient builds because the PCs cannot be kowtowed by any low level commoner with a stick. Diff'nt strokes I suppose.

When I'm the DM, my desire is that the PCs should struggle, and then win. If they win in an unexpected way, all the better. So I like 'em powerful, and I like 'em knowing their powers.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Powergaming can only bad if taken to an extreme.
Choosing to take cleave over toughness for your fighter is an optimal choice (between the two).
Which is completely different from taking 4 different PRCs.
There' s middle ground, not just the poles powergame and RP.

Again and again I've seen mechanically mediocre characters accomplish all sorts of useful stuff in an adventure by good roleplaying...

I've often seen players make in character decisions that had negative consequences. But this is getting side tracked into metagaming. Doing what you know is the optimal decision versus what your character would do.

 

[Oryan77]

NOOOOOOOOOBS!

How am I supposed to join the conversation and tell you guys how lame you are using your DMM builds if I don't know what a DMM Cleric is

Anytime now guys...I'm ready to tell you how you're playing D&D wrong!

 

[Caliban]

That reminds me of another curious phenomenon: I find that so much perceived inequality on paper doesn't bear out at the gaming table. Again and again I've seen mechanically mediocre characters accomplish all sorts of useful stuff in an adventure by good roleplaying, while powergamed characters (mine, often enough) blunder around making dumb mistakes.

I should pre-empt one line of reasoning -- good roleplaying in this case has been both reasonable appeals to the DM (say, having an insight about some NPC and leveraging that in conversation with him or her), and also creative, but entirely correct, use of in-game circumstances that don't necessary strong connections to the rules. An example of the latter might be overturning a cart to block a road, or the like.

Ah, the "Superman" complex. Your PC has such a cool and powerful gimmick/theme that you don't think about any way of dealing with a problem other than using your particular gimmick. I've been guilty of it myself.

But in the end, it really comes down to the DM. If the DM runs combat heavy campaigns where non-optimized characters drag down the rest of the party (or puts them in danger because they can't hold their own), then it's a strong incentive to only play powergamed characters.

On the other hand, if the DM focuses more on plot, social interaction, and challenges that require non-combat solutions, combat optimized characters (the most common powergamer theme) tend to be less useful and there is more incentive to either optimize for social/physical challenges or to make more diverse, versatile characters.

The trick is to identify what style of campaign you are in before you create your character, or to talk the DM into allowing you to adjust your character to better fit his campaign if you realize your PC is out of synch with his style. Or just run with your own concept anyway and damn the consequences, which has it's own kind of fun.

 

[Shadeydm]

I too have been playing a long long time and had no idea what a DDM build was until reading this thread.

I find that I have trouble digesting the notion that people who don't optimize/powergame are somehow playing deficient characters.

I tend to subscribe to the idea that its ok to play the character you want the way you want as long as it doesn't infringe on the enjoyment of the other people at the table.