[Not HR] Sample Epic Spells

[CRGreathouse]

I present two sample epic spells.

Summon Infernal Dragon
Conjuration (Summoning) [Chaotic] [Evil] [Fire]
Spellcraft DC: 84
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 75 ft.
Effect: One summoned fiendish great wyrm red dragon
Duration: 20 rounds (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 756,000 gp; 16 days; 30,240 XP. Seed: summon (DC 14). Factors: 1-action (+20 DC), CR 27 (+50 DC).
On the first round of combat, the dragon usually make a full attack, dealing 7.6 average damage to AC 69+ and 159.6 average damage vs. AC 46 or lower. They penetrate DR as if using a +3 weapon, and can breathe fire for an average of 132 points of damage.

Summon Azer Team (4)
Conjuration (Summoning) [Fire] [Lawful]
Spellcraft DC: 84
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 75 ft.
Effect: Four summoned azers
Duration: 20 rounds (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
To Develop: 756,000 gp; 16 days; 30,240 XP. Seed: summon (DC 14). Factors: 1-action (+20 DC), summon 4 (x4). Mitigating factor: burn 5,200* XP (-52).
The summoned azers attack in concert, dealing anything with fire resistance 4+ and AC 23+ an average of 1.1 points of combined damage per round. Creatures with AC of 5 or less without fire resistance take an average of 24.7 damage. They cannot penetrate DR.

* If the mitigating factor is added before the multiplication, instead burn 1,300 XP.

 

[CRGreathouse]

What, no thoughts on two DC 84 epic spells (one of which requires 5,200 XP)? Do they seem equal in power to everyone?

 

[gfunk]

Hmmmm . . . I see your point. But I suppose that's why the ELH says that the DM has the final say about what is allowed

If your point is that the system is pretty easy to abuse, they I think you are right. On the Wizards' boards people were putting Epic Spells that granted permanent 70 SR. The mitigating factor was a casting time of 100 days. Clearly unbalanced and subject to DM nerfing...

 

[Tar-Edhel]

I know nothing about epic spells mechanics...

... but somehow I cannot understand how you would consider a fiendish red Great wyrm the equivalent of 4 puny Azers.

Or am I missing something? Maybe those are epic azers...

Just my 2 coppers

 

[CRGreathouse]

I know nothing about epic spells mechanics...

... but somehow I cannot understand how you would consider a fiendish red Great wyrm the equivalent of 4 puny Azers.

Or am I missing something? Maybe those are epic azers...

You missed nothing. These are ordinary, run-of-the-mill, non-epic, CR 2, 1d8+2-dealing azers. I was just pointing out one of the flaws of the epic spellcasting system.

Remember, though, that summoning the azers costs 5,200 XP (and summoning the dragon costs nothing).

Also, note that it's easier to summon a fiendish creature (+4 DC) than to leave it alone (+10 DC).

There's no cap to the mitigating factors, so a hard spell can be reduced to a minimal DC easily with long casting time (et. al.). I think there should be a limit - perhaps 50% of the original DC?

Note that the time increases are counted differently in different places (-> 10 minutes: DC -20 or DC -18?).

 

[HEL Pit Fiend]

On the Wizards' boards people were putting Epic Spells that granted permanent 70 SR. The mitigating factor was a casting time of 100 days. Clearly unbalanced and subject to DM nerfing...

Actually those people are erroneous. An epic spell that gives a permanent spell resistance of 70 will require a Spellcraft DC of 815, thats with a 100 day casting time. They are applying the x5 permanency mutliplier and the mitigating factors in the wrong order.

Epic Spellcasting is not broken, it's people's math which is broken.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Epic Spellcasting is not broken, it's people's math which is broken.

What do you think of mine?