Not quite arguing, but not far off.

[Tom Cashel]

My players don't write character histories. It started off as laziness on their part, then I started writing them for them (they get input, but only if they put it in before the final, 6-10 page draft).

This was especially important when we started an FR campaign, cos when we started only two of us where FR savie. So I wrote the histories, and I relate back to them during game play fairly frequently.

Umm...hmm.

And how do the sessions go? Do you e-mail them to let them know what their characters did and how it all turned out?

I'm pretty familiar with the FR, and I don't see any reason why an elf shouldn't know how to find Evereska. Wouldn't they have all kinds of time to learn little things about their society during the extra 80 years it takes them to reach maturity?

Anyway, I second the point that this is a character-knowledge issue. Frame the conversation as, "We need to decide what your characters know, and what they don't know," rather than, "Stop challenging me."

Remember: they may be players but it's their game too.

 

[soulcat]

Mercule

Thanks, that was a big help. I obviously can't climb into his head, so hearing it from the perspective of someone who seems to see things like he does is good. It certainly helps me focus on how I need to approach the stituation when it comes up.

Tom Cashel

All feed back is done on the night as I give out xp.
Also I do think it is unreasonable for any elf to know the location of Evereska: the last home. The only remaining elven city in Northern Faerun. Every description I've read of the city says they are secretive, and hide their city. In the most recent book I've read (Forsaken house) it says that anyone passing the mountains wouldn't suspect that there is an elven city within them.

Furthermore, although not mentioned before, his character is the son of a minor civil servant in Silverymoon, and didn't leave Silverymoon till he was nearly 100. he spent all this time trying to find a direction, then he met a Dwarf who took him off adventuring.

I'm willing to accept that all the Elven leaders, and a fair few of the old adventurers know how to find Evereska, but not every elf (which was what he implied).



That said. All the comments on this thread have been taken on board and I have some things to consider before the next time I run (which could acutally be a couple of months off, now that I have rotated out for the first time in a year and a half).

 

[Terwox]

Here's an idea... whenever he says "why don't I know where it is?" have him make a survival roll, and a knowledge (geography) or something appropriate. Remember, if he has 5 ranks of survival, he does have intuit direction, and might very well know where the place is... just, probably not. But you should give him a chance... might make it easier for him to accept.
Might be wrong, he might simply say "but I shouldn't have to roll!" ... but he might not.

 

[Tom Cashel]

I do think it is unreasonable for any elf to know the location of Evereska: the last home. The only remaining elven city in Northern Faerun. Every description I've read of the city says they are secretive, and hide their city. In the most recent book I've read (Forsaken house) it says that anyone passing the mountains wouldn't suspect that there is an elven city within them.

Furthermore, although not mentioned before, his character is the son of a minor civil servant in Silverymoon, and didn't leave Silverymoon till he was nearly 100. he spent all this time trying to find a direction, then he met a Dwarf who took him off adventuring.

I'm willing to accept that all the Elven leaders, and a fair few of the old adventurers know how to find Evereska, but not every elf (which was what he implied).

Fair enough. Tell your player that.

Preferably in a reasonable tone.

 

[Aaron L]

Easliy a knowledge: arcana check. What's his K:A?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I think the problem here is that you're not clear on your definition of "knowing evereska".

I do think most elves know of Evereska, especially moon and sun elves. They will know that it is the last elven realm this side of the sea, and that it is hidden from the casual observer (in fact, very few nonhumans know about it) They probably know the general location of Evereska (in the North -> near the soutwestern end of Anauroch -> south of the Graycloak Hills -> etc).

Of course, they won't be able to just close their eyes and then walk into the exact direction of Evereska. They have to obtain more specific directions but they won't search for Evereska near Calimport, Dambrath or Ten-Towns.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Finally, you might want to point out that it's pathetically easy for a 17th level character and his party to find their way ANYWHERE.

They cast "find the path" and voila, they have a bearing.

Once they're within 170 minutes of travel of the area (bearing in mind that this could involve methods of travel like shadowwalk, which moves them at some 50 miles an hour (ie - they'd need to be within 140 miles of the place, which is a pretty big area), they cast it again.

Then they're there.

And that's assuming they want to know where it is. If they just don't care, and just want to go there, someone gets a description of the place and casts "greater teleport" and they're just there.

Edit:
Oh, and having read one of your posts in another thread, wherein you proposed denying a save to someone standing in the middle of a fireball, and not only that, but decided to deny the save knowing that it would mean the characters death, I would suggest that you stick to the rules as written. You're a really bad judge of what is fair and what is fun.

Changing the rules so characters get screwed is a sure fire way to get your players arguing rules calls with you.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

Does anyone know of tactful ways to tell my one of my best friends that he is a jumped up, up tight rules junky with an inflated opinion of his own knowledge of the campaign world, without sounding like I'm an ignorant opinionated control freak with no interest in Player enjoyment?

Sit him down and say this: "The FR novels are junk. No, seriously, they're really bad. As a campaign setting, it's lots of fun, but the novels they've written about it are utter abominations, and the authors should be imprisoned for their crimes against readers everywhere. For your own sanity, I urge you to never, ever consider anything written in one of those novels as being necessarily true in our game. If you have a question about whether something is true, ask me, and I'll tell you."

I suppose you could tone down the language a bit (or, if you're me, make it harsher than Eric's grandma would approve of ), but the basic message here is that he can read the novels for fun, but they are not to be considered a reliable source about the setting, and he should never assume that any detail that shows up in a novel has anything to do with the game.


You might also toss him a copy of the Player's Handbook with the description of elvish racial qualities clearly marked, as well as a copy of the FRCS with the pages about elves, Silverymoon, and Evereska marked. Challenge him to point out the sentence where it says that all elves have an innate knowledge of the exact location of Evereska, and that if he can find that sentence, you'll allow his character to have it, too. If he can't find it, then I guess he'll just have to find someone who DOES know where Evereska is and learn it from him.

...mind you, that's just treating the symptoms, not treating the disease. Get him to understand that the novels are only superficially similar to the campaign setting, and you'll be better off.

--
actually, i quite like blackmoria's suggestion of not loaning any other books to him
ryan

 

[soulcat]

Finally, you might want to point out that it's pathetically easy for a 17th level character and his party to find their way ANYWHERE.

They cast "find the path" and voila, they have a bearing.

Once they're within 170 minutes of travel of the area (bearing in mind that this could involve methods of travel like shadowwalk, which moves them at some 50 miles an hour (ie - they'd need to be within 140 miles of the place, which is a pretty big area), they cast it again.

Then they're there.

And that's assuming they want to know where it is. If they just don't care, and just want to go there, someone gets a description of the place and casts "greater teleport" and they're just there.

Edit:
Oh, and having read one of your posts in another thread, wherein you proposed denying a save to someone standing in the middle of a fireball, and not only that, but decided to deny the save knowing that it would mean the characters death, I would suggest that you stick to the rules as written. You're a really bad judge of what is fair and what is fun.

Changing the rules so characters get screwed is a sure fire way to get your players arguing rules calls with you.

Once again assumptions and rudeness. I never said the rules for fireball should be changed I just said they niggled at me. I have discussed it with my players and the other post was about the laws of physics int he game, so it seemed to fit the thread.

My players have enjoyed my current game for a year and a half and have repeatedly refused offers to play something new, so I think I am a good judge of what is fair and fun as far as my group is concerned.

This thread is about a specific problem I have with one player, and ways I can work on alleviating the problems, am I still a bad judge?

I have changed maybe 3 rules in about 18 years of roleplaying, and all of those have been after discussion with players. Interpretaion of rules has lead to many other discussions, but generally we come to a mutual understanding.

Thankyou once again for making assumptions and being a little pig headed.

 

[Eremite]

Discussing this is the only answer. I would also make it a house rule (if you have a hourse rule document I would include this with it) that the novels are not necessarily canon in your version of FR.

I've done that in my games both because it helps me run the campaign the way I want... plus it saves my players from reading badly written books. Just kidding; some of the recent ones have been quite OK.