D&D 5E (2024) Nothics should speak Common and other languages

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Disclaimer: Yes, obviously, as a DM, anyone can do this. This is about what should be in the Monster Manual.

So, nothic lore (which I feel like wasn't their original lore in the 3E Miniatures Handbook -- a surprisingly great book, even for theater of the mind groups) is that they're former scholars of forbidden lore, twisted into hideous shapes now dominated by a single unblinking eye that are still consumed with the hunt for forbidden lore.

So far, so good, although I think the old Hobbit cartoon tells us that creepy guys with big eyes that slowly blink are probably creepier than those with eyes that don't blink.

But nothics only speak Undercommon RAW. I get that they are supposed to have forgotten their old lives -- which is boring, IMO, but OK -- but how much forbidden lore is written in Undercommon? Are they all getting transformed in a drow or mind flayer library?

And given that WotC loves sticking nothics into starter sets -- there's one in Lost Mine of Phandalin and another in Heroes of the Borderlands -- and that players are explicitly supposed to negotiate with them, not letting them do so in Common feels like a huge oversight. Some DMs will just miss that they don't speak Common, but others will either stop the negotiations dead or force their PCs to pantomime a conversation.

This feels like a missed opportunity. If WotC wants to elevate nothics to be their next "sticky" monster -- monsters that the players fall in love with and want to see return in future; this was an explicit goal with many of the monsters in the 3E Fiend Folio, for instance -- I think the monsters need to be tweaked to be creatures the PCs can do more than fight with.

The easiest fix is to just give them the ability to speak Common, but if they're supposed to be creepy scholars of the forbidden, I'd probably toss in 1d4 rare languages as well, to reflect what kind of esoteric studies they're into. (And it'd be kind of fun when the players learn that the forbidden knowledge that turned a former human scholar into a weird monster was written in ... Celestial.)

 

[Nyx_Necrodragon]

Personally I never even bothered giving them the ability to speak but they understand several languages.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I’ve encountered quite a few speaking nothics as a player and as a DM, and they always speak Common, so I think the OP is right, a rule that is generally overruled is a bad rule.

 

[Reynard]

Disclaimer: Yes, obviously, as a DM, anyone can do this. This is about what should be in the Monster Manual.

So, nothic lore (which I feel like wasn't their original lore in the 3E Miniatures Handbook -- a surprisingly great book, even for theater of the mind groups) is that they're former scholars of forbidden lore, twisted into hideous shapes now dominated by a single unblinking eye that are still consumed with the hunt for forbidden lore.

So far, so good, although I think the old Hobbit cartoon tells us that creepy guys with big eyes that slowly blink are probably creepier than those with eyes that don't blink.

But nothics only speak Undercommon RAW. I get that they are supposed to have forgotten their old lives -- which is boring, IMO, but OK -- but how much forbidden lore is written in Undercommon? Are they all getting transformed in a drow or mind flayer library?

And given that WotC loves sticking nothics into starter sets -- there's one in Lost Mine of Phandalin and another in Heroes of the Borderlands -- and that players are explicitly supposed to negotiate with them, not letting them do so in Common feels like a huge oversight. Some DMs will just miss that they don't speak Common, but others will either stop the negotiations dead or force their PCs to pantomime a conversation.

This feels like a missed opportunity. If WotC wants to elevate nothics to be their next "sticky" monster -- monsters that the players fall in love with and want to see return in future; this was an explicit goal with many of the monsters in the 3E Fiend Folio, for instance -- I think the monsters need to be tweaked to be creatures the PCs can do more than fight with.

The easiest fix is to just give them the ability to speak Common, but if they're supposed to be creepy scholars of the forbidden, I'd probably toss in 1d4 rare languages as well, to reflect what kind of esoteric studies they're into. (And it'd be kind of fun when the players learn that the forbidden knowledge that turned a former human scholar into a weird monster was written in ... Celestial.)

I think the real answer is to have a D&D "latin" -- that is, a lingua franca among lore keepers, going back millenia.

 

[aco175]

My players see a monster that needs to be killed. They hardly ever try to talk with things in a dungeon. They more recently try to talk to things on the road like bandits trying to exhort them out of gold. Maybe some of this is that gold in 5e has less opportunities to use.

I'm making an encounter where the party is going to visit the Uthgardt barbarians of FR who only speak Bothii according to the books. This will lead to the dance we roleplay where one player might case something or speak the language and the others somehow know what is going on or handwave translating. I have never found a great way to deal with languages in the game.

Then if all monsters can speak common, why bother with the rest. We seem to have had these threads before.

Might just grant disadvantage to checks when we dance, but that just eventually leads to failure.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Then if all monsters can speak common, why bother with the rest. We seem to have had these threads before.

None of the PCs in Heroes of the Borderland speak any language but Common (presumably -- they have no languages listed at all). What is it you're trying to preserve with this stance? A fun mini-game of charades, mid-D&D session?

"First word, sounds like 'grimoire' ..."

 

[sevenbastard]

Im not sure ill ever view the Nothic in the same category as Owlbear or Displacer Beast. But good for them for trying.

 

[monsmord]

"Forbidden lore" is such a broad, virtually unfathomable magical hole from which to draw, one could imagine they've stumbled on any number of "forbidden" or forgotten languages, and have had to learn several to fully grock the lost lore. (I mean, comprehend languages only goes so far; some lore might not be presented in a single straightforward language, or one neither spoken nor written.) And if they've at some point messed with comprehend languages, maybe even having it made permanent, there's even less reason to restrict them. I'd say the DM can give them whatever language(s) would make an interesting encounter, and it'd be nice if the entry were updated to say as much.

 

[Reynard]

None of the PCs in Heroes of the Borderland speak any language but Common (presumably -- they have no languages listed at all). What is it you're trying to preserve with this stance? A fun mini-game of charades, mid-D&D session?

"First word, sounds like 'grimoire' ..."

This is a good question. What is the point of these languages? Outside of simulation purposes, what do they add to the game?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

This is a good question. What is the point of these languages? Outside of simulation purposes, what do they add to the game?

I think with full characters, who have languages, they're a way to offer additional lore and info dumps. Think of the books in CRPGs -- rarely consequential, but for the people who want ever more lore about Skyrim or Baldur's Gate, they can go around and get bonus information that way. (Obviously, not having a specific language should never be something that would stop an adventure dead, similar to not requiring the PCs to either unlock a door or have to give up and go home.)

So talking to the nothic or the xorn or whatever in an adventure instead of just fighting with it or communicating with it on a very basic level should be an opportunity to learn more about what's going on, either in the adventure or the game world.

In the case of Heroes of the Borderlands, the nothic might well be a former member of the Cult of Evil Chaos and the author or original owner of all the occult books that are, strangely, in the guildhouse library at the keep. So talking to it and maybe promising to get some of the books from the library for it might be a way to get it to tell what it knows about the cult's activities, elsewhere in the caves and in the Borderlands more generally.