Now Armor=DR not AC bonus! READ THIS!!!

[UofMDude]

This was our exact experience when my group tried out Ken Hood's Grim-n-Gritty system and was the primary reason why we decided not to use it. In addition to finesse characters having trouble, low level monks really got slammed as well. It's more realistic, but it's not heroic and, for us, it's not as fun.

Of course it's more realistic. I mean, what do you think's going to happen if you poke a metal breastplate with a rapier? Or hit someone in a full plate with your fist? Nothing! (except maybe hurting your hand alot). But where's the fun in that?

UofMDude

 

[Warchild]

hmmm.

Well if you want to give the finesse guys a chance, allow called shots at a -4 or something for piecring, -6 or 8 for slashing/blunt weapons. If they take the penalty and hit, they ignore the DR of the armor. I think thats sound, but i've never tried it out, so you might want to test it or something.

 

[Akunin]

Remember, too, that the DR applies ONLY to Wound Point damage, and *NOT* to Vitality Points.

 

[MythandLore]

Re: hmmm.

Here's what one of the designers has to say about it...

SWRPGNETWORK

Thanks for the info, I'm liking it less and less, it only works with wound points AND it's not going to be as high as the Armor Bonus was, talk about sucking, The only reason I can see them doing it for is to make it so Player Character's wont want to use any armor - like the character's in the movie.

From what I recall...

All classes get Defense ratings (this is apparently new).

Armor provides Damage resistance (this is also new).

The "formula" they gave in "Shadow Chasers" in Polyhedron was to take D&D armor's armor bonus, divide by 2, and that's the damage resistance of the armor.

I don't know what a "Defense rating" is but all the classes in starwars had "Defense Bonuses" to their AC before.

This was our exact experience when my group tried out Ken Hood's Grim-n-Gritty system and was the primary reason why we decided not to use it. In addition to finesse characters having trouble, low level monks really got slammed as well. It's more realistic, but it's not heroic and, for us, it's not as fun.

EDIT: I think it's a great system, however, and worth looking at for those who want a different feel to the game - just playtest it and see if the fit is right for your group first.

A low level Monk is weak, all the low level characters are weak.
It's not heroic at low levels because characters aren't very heroic at low levels, like in real life.
In real life do you really think you can fight someone in full plate with just your fist or a knife?
Punching steel really wont work out well for you.

Of course it's more realistic. I mean, what do you think's going to happen if you poke a metal breastplate with a rapier? Or hit someone in a full plate with your fist? Nothing! (except maybe hurting your hand alot). But where's the fun in that?

UofMDude

Yes, it is very realistic that way.
Wether or no you group thinks its fun is up to your group, but it is realistic.

Well if you want to give the finesse guys a chance, allow called shots at a -4 or something for piecring, -6 or 8 for slashing/blunt weapons. If they take the penalty and hit, they ignore the DR of the armor.

I agree.
But that's the point of the critical right?
I crit with a rapier and do more damage, then I can hurt someone with DR.
But I think a called shot system would be good.

 

[DMaple]

Remember, too, that the DR applies ONLY to Wound Point damage, and *NOT* to Vitality Points.

Ah that's a very important difference. Since the majority of the time you will be doing vitality point damage in Star Wars. As you only do Wound damage on a critical or if all Vitality is gone.

Also makes sense since when you take Vitality damage it is not ment to represent you actually being hit, and if your not hit how could armour reduce the damage?

 

[Agnostic Paladin]

Going back to the original discussion about simply switching armour bonus to damage reduction...

Since the purpose of switching to DR is realism, then certain weapons need to have some manner of penetration stat that only applies to armour added to them - especially arrows and bolts. Possibly several other piercing weapons would have small penetration values as well.

Also, as far as making rapiers & light weapon fighters less effective, I think that such a system would push light weapons back into the hands of rogues, who'd still be able to use their sneak attacks to injure heavily armoured foes - representing their ability to find the gaps more effectively.

 

[Dristram]

I think that armor providing DR instead of an Armor Bonus is a cool idea. But I don't think it will work within the scope of the current D&D rules without a ripple effect of adjustments. If it wasn't for the magic aspect, i.e. mage armor, stone skin, Rings of Protection, etc., and the Natural Armor Bonus inherent in D&D, DR could work. But as it is, DR could be too unbalancing. Especially for a mage that polymorphs into a dragon

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Also, as far as making rapiers & light weapon fighters less effective, I think that such a system would push light weapons back into the hands of rogues, who'd still be able to use their sneak attacks to injure heavily armoured foes - representing their ability to find the gaps more effectively.

VERY insightful. Good call.

 

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

There's a (somewhat) related idea being discussed in the House Rules Forum that would allow armour to convert some portion of normal damage to subdual damage, while providing actual DR versus subdual attacks--perhaps allowing a particularly skillful or lucky blow to bypass such protection.

 

[Infinite Monkey]

Ken Hoods Grim-n-Gritty system (www.sleepingimperium.rpghost.com) has rules for armour DR and penetration and class defense bonuses and called shots that allow you to ignore armour DR and lots of stuff like that. You just need to ignore his hit point system and it all works wonderfully.