NPC made on character generator

[DracoSuave]

Except for different gear, and assuming they're the same level.

See, my assumption is that characters using the same rules for their creation will end up the same. Obviously if the N/PCs are lower level it's a different story. But that doesn't change the fact that a level 1 PC is not the same difficulty as a level 1 monster, and that needs to be reflected in encounter balance. I don't know where I'd eyeball it, personally, but if it works for you that's great.

That said, if you start with the assumption that five level 15 PCs would be a level 15 encounter, you're sorely mistaken.

 

[James McMurray]

Cool. Lemme know when you've got something beyond theories.

 

[zoroaster100]

I would love to buy a 4E "Monster Manual" of just NPC "monsters" of a wide variety of PC class/race combos and wide range of levels, but especially Herioc levels. I wish WOTC would produce such a product, or failing that, a third party publisher.

 

[MrMyth]

Cool. Lemme know when you've got something beyond theories.

To be fair, I think he was referring to his assumptions about what was being discussed, not how they operated. Several people have said that enemies created using the PC rules is entering dangerous territory. You said that it actually worked fine - but it turned out they were lower level characters without standard PC equipment, which seems to be putting in specific limitations to avoid the very dangers being discussed.

Personally, I'll avoid it and recommend against it, as the nova potential is undeniably there - but I can see situations where that would work, I can see the desire to fully flesh out monsters via feats and paragon paths, and I can see the benefit of being able to crank them out with an easy to use character creater. Done carefully, like any other decisions a DM makes that are outside the standard rules but fit into what they are looking for in the game, it is a perfectly legitimate choice to make.

I'll still advise caution, but if it works for you, then by all means, enjoy the use of them!

 

[James McMurray]

To be fair, I think he was referring to his assumptions about what was being discussed, not how they operated. Several people have said that enemies created using the PC rules is entering dangerous territory. You said that it actually worked fine - but it turned out they were lower level characters without standard PC equipment, which seems to be putting in specific limitations to avoid the very dangers being discussed.

They were 1 level lower and had a bunch of allies with them to make up for it. They had standard PC gear for their level, but much of it had been stolen from the PCs prior to the fight. For notmal situations you couldn't give them standard PC gear without putting in cheesy "only works for NPCs" restrictions or you'd break the monetary system every time the players beat up an NPC.

Personally, I'll avoid it and recommend against it, as the nova potential is undeniably there - but I can see situations where that would work, I can see the desire to fully flesh out monsters via feats and paragon paths, and I can see the benefit of being able to crank them out with an easy to use character creater. Done carefully, like any other decisions a DM makes that are outside the standard rules but fit into what they are looking for in the game, it is a perfectly legitimate choice to make.

Pretty much my sentiments exactly, and I'll add that I prefer the stamina of a DMG version NPC, plus the loss of extra dailies is partially made up for by the addition of an action point, so the nova potential is lower but faster, if that makes sense.