NPCs and PC group CR?

[Pandion]

How much do additional NPCs, beyond the normal 4 PC group, help?

Let me give my situation so you all can help me. I have 4 PCs of all lvl 7 right now. I would like to run them through an adventure rated for a 9th level party. I'm willing to modify the adventure of course but was wondering how much having extra NPCs of 7th level would help the group tackle the CR 9s and 10s in the adventure? How much power does one (or more) NPC of the party's level add to the group in terms of what CRs they can handle?

 

[Stormborn]

Technically not any, practically it depends on the adventure.

Adding 2-3 NPCs (the most I would think was technically possible and have no one get bogged down in playing multiple characters, or worse yet the DM doing it) to a party of 4 shouldn't do much to their overall level. That is the implcation in the DMG by my reading.

Practically, if the ECL is based on multiple encounters with several lowler level CRs the a larger party will deal with them more quickly and efficently than a smaller one. In my experiance a larger party, regardless if its PCs or PCs+NPCS, has a slightly easier time of most adventures, but not enough that would make a 7th level group a fit for a 9th level adventure.


My suggestion: lower the ECLs of individual encounters (a good adventure should have suggestions on how to do that) and allow the PCs to level up as soon as they can do so.

 

[S'mon]

In theory a party of 8 level 7s is as tough as a party of 4 level 9s. In practice, though, the level-7 party will find some battles easier (eg against a large force of foes) while against single powerful foes they are more likely to incur fatalities, and won't be able to Raise them.

IF I were you I wouldn't add more than a couple of NPCs to the group so it's roughly equivalent to an 8th level 4-man party, be generous in having these NPCs bear brunt of attacks when reasonable, and edit the scenario to shave a level off it, maybe by modifying stats but just making the foes lazy/asleep/disorganised can do the trick. Alter CRs/XP likewise.

 

[Pandion]

OK thanks for the help. Seems like DMs (and players) get diminishing returns with the addition of extra party members. More than likely I'll end up adding a couple NPCs and adjusting the CRs of the encounters in the adventure. Thanks again!

 

[Keith]

Hi,

A couple of things spring to mind on this, for me. First, wanting to throw a group into some situations that are above their level is a common problem, I think- and I think the best solution is patience: find something for the party to do in between to raise their levels. A 7th level party might be fine, or might get slaughtered by CR 9 encounters.

I think adding NPCs for this reason, i.e. you as DM are predicting the party's future and are adding resources for that reason alone, not for any in-game story reason, is really a very bad idea for a DM. I would say simply don’t do it, ever. Whatever level of role-playing your game has (it may be low, while still being a fun game), it is completely ruined by this approach, I think.

Also, to pull the party strength up this way, all of the improvement will really lie with the NPCs- which will make your players feel like they are now the sidekicks for those NPCs. I’ve played through this type of situation, and it was awful. To make it worse, while “the party” may beat CR 9 encounters because of some 11th level NPCs, the PCs will be the ones most likely to die, in encounter after encounter, while the NPCs strut about. Finally, there is the risk that players may suspect you are keeping your NPCs alive regardless of what occurs. Ordinarily, I don’t think this is a major problem- DMing is story telling, and sometimes an NPC needs to survive as part of the story. But ones that are “party” members should be in the same boat as PCs, always.

Basically, if you have a good group, don’t endanger it by adding DM-PCS. They are always lame, in my opinion. There is nothing worse than watching the higher level DM-PC fight it out with the monster your PC can’t even approach…

Wait two levels, is my advice- the other options are not very good ones. Best of luck in any case, though.

 

[S'mon]

Keith - sure "DM-PCs" are lame. But NPCs who are just a bit weaker than the PCs - say same level but not so good stats & gear - can be useful both to boost CR and as something the PCs can measure themselves against, and feel good about it.

 

[Kalendraf]

When trying to determine party level, I find this extremely helpful:

http://www.enworld.org/cc/fiend_factory/elc/encounter_calculator.htm

For example, my party right now has a wide mix of levels (1@14, 3@11, 1@10, 1@9), and the encounter calculator suggests their effective level is 12.6. In the last session, an EL 12 encounter posed a decent challenge for them.

 

[Keith]

Keith - sure "DM-PCs" are lame. But NPCs who are just a bit weaker than the PCs - say same level but not so good stats & gear - can be useful both to boost CR and as something the PCs can measure themselves against, and feel good about it.

Oh yea, I agree wtih that! I like NPCs in general, and maybe this approach would help in the situation under discussion, so that would be good. It jsut seems like to face encounters 2 CRs up for a small party, the NPCs will have to bring some real power to the table, which slides into the DM-PC area, possibly. If not, full steam ahead, although I still stand by the idea that adding any NPCs for this reason only is a bit blatant, meta-gaming wise.