Nudity in RPG books?

[Sir Elton]

Exactly.

The question is: why? Why would I care to have nudity in an RPG book? I don't see the benefit.

Thus, no benefit = a non-inclusion, IMO.

No benefit to have nudity included on a RPG based on Creative Medieval Anachronism. But there is a strong benefit to have nudity included on an RPG based on the Old Kingdom of Egypt or Mycenaean Greece or even Minoan Crete.

 

[Arnwyn]

Added realism, added complexity,

Nudity in an RPG book adds "complexity"? Needless to say, I have no idea what you're talking about. (Though I can certainly understand the "realism" part when it's a setting on - as the previous example given earlier above - ancient Greece, and, uh... that's about it.)

Also, usefulness isn't a requirement for art.

It sure as hell better be when it's in an RPG book. I, for one, certainly don't buy an RPG book for "art" (I buy... wait for it... an art book for art. Go figure!).

 

[Arnwyn]

No benefit to have nudity included on a RPG based on Creative Medieval Anachronism.

Absolutely agree with you there.

But there is a strong benefit to have nudity included on an RPG based on the Old Kingdom of Egypt or Mycenaean Greece or even Minoan Crete.

I also agree here. To be honest, I'd be a bit surprised if anyone had something against nudity in such a historically-based supplement (assuming that the book stuck very close to the actual subject matter and historical facts to ensure credibility).

It's too bad your (terrible) poll wasn't more clear - I'm sure you'd have many more positive answers and better understandings in the thread.

 

[Sir Elton]

Absolutely agree with you there.

I also agree here. To be honest, I'd be a bit surprised if anyone had something against nudity in such a historically-based supplement (assuming that the book stuck very close to the actual subject matter and historical facts to ensure credibility).

It's too bad your (terrible) poll wasn't more clear - I'm sure you'd have many more positive answers and better understandings in the thread.

YES! I'm Human!

We all make mistakes Arnwyn. If you think my poll is terrible then I made a mistake somewhere. I'm a nudist, and I became a nudist so that I can break away from Pornography. You see, I was raised to be as puritan as Byron D. For a long time, I was against nudity in any form simply because it was too easy to get off; and I had been burned by Pornography way too many times.

So while Byron D. seeks to protect his children from nudity and raising them to be textiles; I plan to do the opposite. By creating an internal defense against Pornography by raising my children to be nudists will insure a healthier attitude towards sex, their bodies, and the human body in general.

 

[Kalendraf]

It is easy for children to learn and quickly understand the negative consequences of violence.

I disagree. Many children have no concept of the true repercussions of violence. They are bombarded by images on TV, movies and games, and in some cases they try to mimic what they see, even with good parenting. Kids are often fascinated by war, guns, and blowing stuff in general. I know I was. Often, it's not until they become young adults that the real horror of those things actually sinks in.

The negative consequences of sexual behaviors can be far less obvious.

Granted. But what about the depiction of nudity, or are you classifying that as a sexual behavior? Far too often, the discussion of nudity gets lumped into discussion of sex which frankly it shouldn't be.

I want my children to grow up to have well considered and developed, healthy sex lives.
I not exactly worried about them growing up to have a violence life.

Not saying that children should therefore be shielded for sexuality. But I believe the difference between sex and violence is stark and the heightened attention to sexuality over violence by reasonable adults is quite healthy.

I hope your kids do turn out well. I don't have any children yet, but I'm personally much more worried about the opposite. I am very worried about how they will deal with the violence they see. On the other hand, I hope to be rather frank and open about sex when the time is right.

On the topic at hand, I don't need nudity in RPGs any more than I need D20 stats in Playboy.

That would be so funny...

Miss June is a 3rd level sorceress with a 17 charisma. Her favorite spell is Charm Person. Her favorite band is the Darkwind Bards. Her turn-offs are big smelly Barbarians and clueless Warrior types.

 

[ikazuchi]

I replied that nudity doesn't bother me, BUT, I don't think it has a place in mass market RPG books. If we're trying to grow the hobby, things like nudity in books is a quick way to make sure parents and many people period refuse to accept RPGs as a valid hobby.

 

[BryonD]

I disagree. Many children have no concept of the true repercussions of violence. They are bombarded by images on TV, movies and games, and in some cases they try to mimic what they see, even with good parenting. Kids are often fascinated by war, guns, and blowing stuff in general. I know I was. Often, it's not until they become young adults that the real horror of those things actually sinks in.

Certainly at a young age this is correct.
But my 6 year old has a clear sense of what it means to inflict harm and why it is bad.
Being fascinated with pretend violence does not lead to a lack of understanding in the wrongness, as should be clear to most anyone on a D&D website, right?
Again, my 6 year old loves to pretend to attack me with her plastic sword or whatever. (or play D&D for that matter) But she understands the difference.

And I agree that the rate of understanding is different for every child and that some anti-social types seem to never catch on. So I would never claim that violence can be simply disregarded as an issue.

But I am still confident that this reason (even if it were wrong) is why many people consider exposure of children to sexually explicit material is a much more of a concern than exposure to graphic violence.

 

[Zappo]

Nudity in an RPG book adds "complexity"? Needless to say, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Speaking in an abstract way, a world where feature X exists is more complex than a world where feature X does not exist. This added complexity may or may not be desirable, of course. I never said they were strong reasons.

In fact, I fully expected you not to find these reasons compelling. I'm not here to convince you to add nudity to your games. I'm just trying to make you understand that it is conceivable that other people may find nudity interesting or useful (without being perverts).

(Though I can certainly understand the "realism" part when it's a setting on - as the previous example given earlier above - ancient Greece, and, uh... that's about it.)

Hm... maybe we're talking about two different things. I am not talking about making nudity central to the game, and I don't know why you would get this impression; I am talking about recognizing that it exists. Naked people have always existed, and until we find a way to upload brains into robots, they will keep existing.

It sure as hell better be when it's in an RPG book. I, for one, certainly don't buy an RPG book for "art" (I buy... wait for it... an art book for art. Go figure!).

Again, I suspect that we're on different wavelengths. I wasn't talking about illustrations (only). When I said art, I meant all art, including literature and certain aspects of RPGs. Basically, what I mean is that if I want to publish something, anything, including a RPG supplement, the fact that I have or have not a reason to do it is completely irrelevant to the artistic value of the work.

In other words: you've asked why, and I've given you three possible reasons (which probably aren't valid for you, but they are valid for someone). Now forget about that, and suppose there are no reasons. The answer to your "why?" is "because I can", and the answer to "why would I want it?" is "that's a marketing problem, not an artistic one".

 

[hellbender]

The naked sylph in the 1e Monster Manual and various topless and or bottomless female lineart in 1e was never that bad and I think I came through the harrowing ordeal without too many mental scars, nor do I objectify women as a result. I do agree with elf witch that there should be a reason for the nudity, and a sylph with a gauzy, see-through dress too me is acceptable, as is a goddess of jealousy/love/etc although some were a bit silly (Bast had a rack in the 1e days and she wasn't afraid to show it, for some reason). I honestly don't feel that too many rational parents are going to have a heart attack over a cartoon boob here and there, and if they do, keeping little Timmy away from every little instance of nudity is going to be a chore in itself (look at some of the covers of women's magazines at a supermarket, heck, thumb through a Cosmo or American Photography magazine and little Timmy can see the real thing). While I do not object to these minor examples, as I said, it is the truly explicit stuff that I feel is totally unnecessary and potentially turns away new players.


hellbender

 

[Arnwyn]

Hm... maybe we're talking about two different things. I am not talking about making nudity central to the game, and I don't know why you would get this impression; I am talking about recognizing that it exists. Naked people have always existed, and until we find a way to upload brains into robots, they will keep existing.

Yes, I think we are talking about two different things. I was assuming this thread was about nudity in RPG books. It is, of course, irrelevant whether "naked people have always existed" in the context of this thread.

Again, I suspect that we're on different wavelengths. I wasn't talking about illustrations (only). When I said art, I meant all art, including literature and certain aspects of RPGs. Basically, what I mean is that if I want to publish something, anything, including a RPG supplement, the fact that I have or have not a reason to do it is completely irrelevant to the artistic value of the work.

Yeah, I guess we are on different wavelengths. Again, I was assuming that this thread was about RPGs. "All art" is irrelevant to the discussion.

The answer to your "why?" is "because I can", and the answer to "why would I want it?" is "that's a marketing problem, not an artistic one".