Nudity in RPG books?

[BryonD]

Granted. But what about the depiction of nudity, or are you classifying that as a sexual behavior? Far too often, the discussion of nudity gets lumped into discussion of sex which frankly it shouldn't be.

That is a very valid point.
Right after the Janet Jackson thing ER pulled a scene involving the exposed breast of an elderly patient.
I bet that if the Jackson thing had not happened, the ER thing would have caused very little stir.

If my child saw Janet Jackson's breast on screen because there was a true "wardobe malfunction" and that was all, I would not have been concerned at all.

If my child saw Janet Jackson's breast because she pulled it out on stage to show off, I would have been somewhat bothered with the message of objectifing women sent out in a setting where one would expect children to be watching.

If my child saw Janet Jackson's breast because some guy ripped part of her shirt off in front of a cheering, approving crowd, I would be much more unhappy.

I'm certain there are some people who freak out over the simple sight if an exposed breast. And that is silly, IMHO. But I believe the large reaction to the Jackson thing was caused by the context as much as anything else. I certainly don't believe any of this would have come from the ER thing, had that happened instead.

And if Janet Jackson wants to get her clothes ripped off in an R rated movie, then that is up to her.

 

[Dimwhit]

Further, I just don't think nudity adds anything significant. I mean, that's hardly the purpose of a gaming book. If I want to look at that sort of thing, I'm not going to head for my gaming bookshelf. I have the Internet.

I think this sums it up. (NOTE: I only read the first page of this topic.)

Nudity doesn't offer anything valid to D&D, other than feeding the adolescent fantasies of the traditional D&D Geek.

I prefer not to have nudity in RPG books, not because I'm a prude, or because it's against my religion, but because it's not necessary, it makes some people unnecessarily uncomfortable, and...well, why? Can't think of one valid, objective reason for having it in there.

 

[TracerBullet42]

Basically, what I mean is that if I want to publish something, anything, including a RPG supplement, the fact that I have or have not a reason to do it is completely irrelevant to the artistic value of the work.

But the topic was about how you feel about it in RPG books...

Noone is trying to take away anyone's rights to write/publish/draw whatever they want here...they are just trying to gather opinions on whether or not people think it is "appropriate" for RPG books.

On that basis, I voted no. Or "Think of the children"...or however it was phrased...

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Well, I chose the first option since it was the only one that came close to what I think. No, I don't think nudity is evil. No, I don't have issue with nudity in artwork. I think the concept of covering the statue of David's genitals is a stupid idea. With all that said, I see no reason for it in most RPG materials other than some childish titilation factor (yes there are exceptions such as the dryad etc.). Some people are not comfortable with it, so why make it an issue when it does not add anything to the game itself. I think all it leads to is the continued perception of D&D and related RPGs being a male dominated game that objectifies women (notice how little discussion has been centered around naked men). I know that isn't the reality, but that is how many perceive the game and gratuitous nudity just reinforces that notion.

 

[Zappo]

Yeah, I guess we are on different wavelengths. Again, I was assuming that this thread was about RPGs. "All art" is irrelevant to the discussion.

Heh, ok, I don't think we're quite there yet. Here's an example. I draw it from my own work because no D&D product I own features nudity (reason for which I voted option 4).

In the Abyssal Campaign (link in my sig, no big spoiler follows), at a certain point the characters will encounter a prisoner in an Abyssal fortress/prison. I wanted to emphasize the sheer inhuman cruelty of the tanar'ri towards their prisoners; one of many big and small elements I used to this end is that prisoners are stripped of all possessions and given a single loincloth to cover themselves. The afore-mentioned prisoner, when the PCs meet him, has suffered a very serious wound and he was forced to use the loincloth as a bandage; as a result, he is completely naked.

Here are some observations: first of all, that encounter has absolutely nothing even remotely approaching sexual about it. The NPC is the portrait of misery, completely unattractive for anyone, and has lots of more important things to worry about. Second, the nudity made sense in the circumstance - actually, avoiding it would have required a bit of plot-bending. I could have done it, but why?

Third, and this is the point, I am terrible at drawing and the adventure has no illustrations (save for maps). Does that mean that there is no nudity in the adventure? No. There is. Not in the illustrations, but in the plot. That's what I mean when I say that art is more than just drawings.

If I had a skilled artist, would I ask him to draw the encounter with the NPC? Maybe. Maybe not. It's a rather dramatic moment, but there are so many things in the campaign that I'd like to have a drawing of. But certainly, considerations that are purely marketing in nature would not influence my choice.

 

[TracerBullet42]

Third, and this is the point, I am terrible at drawing and the adventure has no illustrations (save for maps). Does that mean that there is no nudity in the adventure? No. There is. Not in the illustrations, but in the plot. That's what I mean when I say that art is more than just drawings.

So nudity as text, then? I can see your point there, and I think that's fine. But I don't think that's what this poll is getting at...

 

[Mr. Lobo]

What....?

First off to whom is nudity in RPG books a valid concern as pointed out in the first post on the topic?

Apparently there is a lot of concern based on the response. But valid concern? Who decides that?!

Personally I think a lot of people need to get over themselves. Nakedness is part of our condition as being human. Get over it already.

I voted for the third response.

Mr. Lobo

 

[Sejs]

I don't mind nudity. Heck, I like nudity.


However, for things like rpg art, I like the scene depicted to make sense. That very rarely would include nudity - any adventuring type with half a brain in their head would cover up some, if not in the armored sense, than in the environmentally-appropriate clothing sense. And for the record, it would never include cheesecake armor - chainmail bikinis and the like just make my hackles rise. If you're going to wear armor, for crap's sake wear armor, not some peek-a-boo mail.


Anyway, personally while I don't mind nudity in rpg art, I think the industry would be well served to keep it non-sexual. Play it safe.

 

[Oni]

I think this sums it up. (NOTE: I only read the first page of this topic.)

Nudity doesn't offer anything valid to D&D, other than feeding the adolescent fantasies of the traditional D&D Geek.

I prefer not to have nudity in RPG books, not because I'm a prude, or because it's against my religion, but because it's not necessary, it makes some people unnecessarily uncomfortable, and...well, why? Can't think of one valid, objective reason for having it in there.

You don't think using images that are more graphic in content (beit violent or sexual or something else) in order to set the proper visual tone for a setting is a valid reason for nudity for instance?

I mean let's say someone was going to do a rpg supplement based on Frank Miller's Sin City. Would you say there is no valid reason to include any of his images of nude male or female body? Removing that would change the tone of the setting.

Nudity just for the hell of it may not serve a purpose, but that doesn't mean that nudity can't serve a purpose. I mean if it is going to be used it should be done cautiously and with thought about the intended audience. But to say there is not valid reason....

 

[Zappo]

So nudity as text, then? I can see your point there, and I think that's fine. But I don't think that's what this poll is getting at...

Maybe not, but from what I can see in published material, nudity is avoided in plot and text just as much as it is avoided in illos. That's what I find annoying: the illos are window dressing, the descriptions are window dressing, but the plot, even the tiny details of it, is the adventure. You don't need to make an entire plot (or an entire setting) based around nudity, it's just details, and removing nudity shrinks the set of details you can use. Maybe not a big shrinkage, but a shrinkage nonetheless. It's like painting with a slightly reduced palette.

I could make the same argument for sexual nudity, actual sex, swearing, and graphic violence - but I recognize that in those cases the material should have some kind of warning. While I do expect a conscious parent to spend enough time with his kid to understand that there are kidsafe-RPGs and nonkidsafe-RPGs (rather than banning RPGs altogether), I wouldn't expect them to have to read through every single book their kid want.