O' Death Where is Thy Sting....

[Lord Pendragon]

Third Edition removes that restriction. In doing so the possibility of a permanent character death seems to have also been removed. How does this not cheapen the concept of death? Where is the risk?

Yes, permanent character death has been removed. Sure, it makes death a temporary condition. Personally, I am extremely glad for this change. I don't like permanent character death. Temporary death stings greatly (1 lost level or 25,000 gold). I don't need permanent death to feel like I am at risk in combat.

 

[Victim]

Good luck finding the handful of people who can true res and convincing them to do it for you. Even FR isn't exactly crammed to the gills with 17th or higher clerics - all the people at that level are arcane casters.

In terms of short run penalties (ie, we overlook that a character can True Res'd an essentially infinite number of times), I think 3.x is actually harsher. Because of the way attributes worked, many characters would only have ressurection survival and system shock from Con. A 14 Con character loses only a few percent from each after death. A level loss is far more immediate a penalty; it will almost always have a major impact on a character. Furthermore, while each lost point of Con increases the chance that ressurections fail, being a level behind increases the chance of future death by more. Without extreme care, dying can result in a nasty feedback loop. Die, get weaker so you're less able to face the challenges, die again...

Permanent character death is what happens when a character gets tired of dying all the time.

 

[hong]

IMC I replaced the level loss after a resurrection with a DC 10 level check to survive, rising to DC 15 the second time, DC 20 the third, etc. Mind you, I also made wholesale changes to things like instakill spells and generally toned down the lethality of high-level play significantly.

 

[Philip]

I usually stings pretty bad when a player has to sit out the rest of the two-hour battle and all the activities after that, before his character is finally raised. D&D is one of the rare games where people actually accept not actively participating for 2 hours or more.

Then there is the added penalty of coming back a level lower, which maybe diminishes over time, but players usually don't take well to scratch some 'leveling goodies' they thought they earned.

My players do their utmost best to avoid death, even starting heated rule debates when their character's live is at stake. I don't feel they take death lightly.

 

[Nail]

I usually stings pretty bad when a player has to sit out the rest of the two-hour battle .....

This is the important bit.

Realism aside, sitting out while the rest of the players adventure and have fun is enough of a "sting".

It is a game, after all.

 

[Silver Moon]

Realism aside, sitting out while the rest of the players adventure and have fun is enough of a "sting". It is a game, after all.

Yeah, but not necessarily the same impact in a Play-by-post game as a table game.

 

[BlackFalconKY]

Permanent Death Returns!

As a DM, sometimes killing off a character good and permanent is just good storytelling. Regardless the gold piece cost of true resurrection, the PCs always seem to find a way.

My players and I came to a compromise that has worked tremendously well. Every PC has "9 lives". Each PC has his number of lives remaining written on his character sheet. When the number hits 0 and he dies, there is no coming back. No spells, no gods, no nothing can undo this event.

In my campaign, death is common, but with 9 lives, most PCs last a very long time. However, there is a sense of loss as those lives tick away. Even headstrong players begin to develop caution as they hit 4 or fewer lives remaining.

Another alternative is to give everyone (PCs and NPCs) 1d10-1 lives. This number should be kept secret by the DM. This explains why the king can get assassinated and no one can bring him back, etc.

Anyway, it works great for us. Thought I'd pass the idea along.

Black Falcon

 

[Thanee]

Can you find extra lives somewhere in the dungeons?

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

As a DM, sometimes killing off a character good and permanent is just good storytelling.

I agree with that under one premise... the player also sees it like that.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Marimmar]

One problem I see with permanent death is that should the party plunder their fallen comrades they add lots of items to the party stash.

New characters would have to start out with no items to compensate and thus be a lot more in danger of being killed again or start with magic items and add even more magic to the party.

Ressurection on the other hand reduces party funds instead of increasing them.

The latter seems to be the simple solution to that problem, it's easier to fix by the DM.

~Marimmar