[OA] Weapon Questions

[Andrew D. Gable]

I was wondering, of the new weapons in Oriental Adventures, which (if any) are Chinese? They all look to be Japanese or SE Asian to me. I assume the kau sin ke is the iron whip attributed to Huang Gai in Romance of the Three Kingdoms (a book I wholly recommend to anyone running an OA campaign, provided you can wade through 2000+ pages), and the naginata could pass for Guan Yu's Green Dragon blade.

 

[hong]

Kau-sin-se, three-section staff, and butterfly sword are all Chinese, IIRC. When you come down to it, a lot of weapons, no matter their origin, are just your good ol'fashioned bow, sword, spear, staff, halberd/naginata/glaive, etc. There's no need to think up new stats for pointy stick #2,165.

 

[Syunsuke]

1. I'm Japanese, and have been here since I was born.
2. My knowledge isn't perfect, of course.
3. Some weapons might be commonly used in several countries. I labeled them with language. I mean, if it's named in Japanese, I listed them as Japanese weapon.

J: Japanses
C: Chinese
F: fictional

wakizashi:J
Nagamaki:J
Naginata:J
Nekode:J
Tail Spike:F
Butterfly Sword:C (http://www.kamakuranet.ne.jp/~sankaido/butterflysword.htm)
Jitte:J
Ninja-to:J or F (I doubt there were such thing "ninja-to", but I don't know very well.)
Sai:J (Okinawa; but it seems to come from India)
Tonfa:C? (or Okinawa)
War fan:C or F
katana:J
Kau Sin Ke: Sounds C, but I don't know/
kawanaga: This is suposed to be J, but this should be "kaginawa".
Lajatang:I don't know.
Chigiriki:J
Kusari-gama:J
Sang Kawn: I don't know.
Sasumata:J (http://www.kamakuranet.ne.jp/~sankaido/parts/buki/polearms/sasumata.jpg)
Shikomi-zue:J
Sodegarami:J
Three-section staff:C
umi-bari:J
Chakram:India?

I hope this helps.

 

[JayOmega]

"The Palladium Book of Weapons and Armor" lists the weapons that Syunsuke wasn't sure of like this:

Tonfa: "Okinawan rice husking rod"
Kau Sin Ke: "Chinese whipping chain"
Lajatang: "Malaysian bladed staff"
Sang Kauw: "Chinese parrying weapon". But the pic in tPBoWaA shows a hook on the end, not a spearpoint. The weapon that matches the pic in OA is called a "Saintie", and is listed as an "Indian parrying weapon".
Chakram: "Indian throwing disc"

...whether another RPG book is a good source or not, I don't know.

Also, there's a table on p 203 in OA that gives alternate names--many Chinese--for "western" weapons in "eastern" campaigns.

 

[LGodamus]

syunsuke.... ninja to ...and war fan also called tessen arent fictional, and they are both japanese.

 

[olethros]

I'm going to have to agree with Hong. The Naginata and Guan Yu's blade are no where near similar in the types of attacks and strikes you use when wielding the weapon. The orginal Guan Dao (the Green Dragon Blade's generic name) used the wide blade to take out horse's legs, and a nasty spike on the other end to dispatch the rider. I'm pretty sure the Naginata was not used in a similar fashion.
Nevertheless, I would give them the same stats as per the suggestion of Hong.

UNLESS...you want the cavalry version of the Guan Dao, which had a solid iron shaft and no spike. It weighed 70-100 lbs. and probably would need different stats.

 

[Andrew D. Gable]

UNLESS...you want the cavalry version of the Guan Dao, which had a solid iron shaft and no spike. It weighed 70-100 lbs. and probably would need different stats.

Actually, I think the cavalry version may be what he had. Other passages in the book call him a mounted archer.

 

[hong]

I'm going to have to agree with Hong. The Naginata and Guan Yu's blade are no where near similar in the types of attacks and strikes you use when wielding the weapon. The orginal Guan Dao (the Green Dragon Blade's generic name) used the wide blade to take out horse's legs, and a nasty spike on the other end to dispatch the rider. I'm pretty sure the Naginata was not used in a similar fashion.
Nevertheless, I would give them the same stats as per the suggestion of Hong.

Well, to be precise, I'd use the glaive stats for the naginata, and the halberd stats for the guan dao.


Hong "glaive-guisarme-guisarme-voulge lover" Ooi

 

[Syunsuke]

syunsuke.... ninja to ...and war fan also called tessen arent fictional, and they are both japanese.

About war fan;
OA lists tessen as shield, so war fan and tessen aren't same.

Tessen do exist, but it's not like OA tessen .
Historically, there were two type of tessen .

1. Fan with steel vane.
But, this is a blunt weapon without "needle-sharp tip".
And some of this type tessen is too tightly bonded to spread easily.

(This is spreadable type, of course.)

2. Iron bar shaped like foled fan.
This is a blunt weapon but it's basically training tool.
It's obviously weapon, but in some case samurai was allowed to wear it where weapons are restricted.

Well, some inventers might make OA-like tessen , but it's not a historical tessen .

About OA tessen
OA lists tessen as shield, but it's (histrically) untrue.

This is gunbai or gunbai uchiwa .
Gunbai is a mere "commanding tool". Commanders point direction or such with this.
It's made by wood or paper in most case, so you can't use this as sheild or weapon.

About ninja-to
Yeah, this is supposed to be a kind of katana used by ninja.
But, there some argument about credibility about this weapon.
So, I have some doubt about ninja-to .


I think these weapons are fine and interesting as fantasy/D&D equipment.
But, historically, some of them aren't "correct".

 

[shurai]

Actually the properties of the different long weapons in the PHB (and to some degree Sword & Fist and Oriental Adventures) are one of my biggest gripes about D&D 3rd Edition. The fact is that I've seen some of these polearms in use in a relatively realistic environment, and from what I've seen the 3rd Edition OA just gets it wrong. The naginata, for example, isn't really long enough, based on the models I've seen and the forms I've observed, to strike reliably against a foe 10' distant. It's true that it can strike foes about six or seven feet away, which is enough for two squares, but it can very easily strike reliably in the 3' to 5' range, which is perfect for a one-square distance.

With the Chinese long weapons I've seen demonstrated and otherwise used in forms and such, I'd say the kwan dao and its brethren aren't well simulated by the naginata at all. A person with a kwan dao can very easily strike someone within arm's reach, so don't use naginata rules.

Also, those heavy-ish chinese polearms were usually held near the center of the weapon, to smash opponents with either end, whereas the grip was shifted to the end of the weapon to make long-distance cuts and thrusts.

If it were me, I'd say it should work like this:

Kwan Dao (and its friends, maybe they'd have special rules for extra prongs/barbs etc):
Exotic Large Melee Weapon
Damage: d10/d6 slashing/bludgeoning
Critical: 20x3/20x2
Special: The Kwan Dao has two modes: reach mode, and double-weapon mode. Changing between modes, or shifting the grip from the shaft to the blunt end of the weapon, is a free action that doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity. The Kwan Dao threatens enemies no more than 5' distant regardless of mode. If a character uses double weapon mode to make extra attacks in the same round as reach mode, the reaching attacks suffer the same penalties to hitting and damage as per usual with double-weapons.

So, as an explanation:
*Exotic: Frankly, this weapon is so heavy that special training is necessary for using it well. Additionally, I believe it was a fairly advanced weapon in historical terms as well. I know that to this day in Chinese martial arts schools it is frequently taught very late in the sequence of weapon forms. Making the weapon Exotic also makes sense given its nifty-keen special abilities. I'd say it's about as powerful as the Spiked Chain, which is also an Exotic Weapon.

*Damage codes: Basically, smashing people with the blunt end is standard practice with almost all medium-length polearms that I know of. I felt that d12 damage for the main head might be a bit over the top for balance, given that this weapon is probably doing less damage than a great axe. The Crit range seemed appropriate for the devastating attacks that would occur with the main head.

*Special abilities: Frankly, I think almost all oriental polearms should be treated roughly this way: They were absolutely used like double weapons, and they were absolutely used like reach weapons by moving the hands back and forth on the shaft of the weapon. This change is so smooth and fluid that I felt it deserved to be a Free Action.

Threatening a 10' area seemed a bit too much considering this weapon's already cool abilities. Frankly, I don't believe the kwan dao was agile enough to take advantage of sudden opportunities when the weapon is held in a position suitable for striking enemies at a distance. Although, I do believe it could be used to swing broadly and strike lots of enemies at far distance.

Maybe this will be helpful for your game.

-S