Obscure Warlord power query - A Plan Comes Together

[MarkB]

I recently picked up a new Encounter power for my 27th-level warlord called A Plan Comes Together. It originates from an article in Dragon #384. It's a free-action power triggered by an opponent starting their turn, and allows one ally to make a basic melee attack on that enemy, and another to charge them. A successful hit on the basic attack dazes the target, while a successful hit on the charge knocks them prone.

I'd been using this power for a couple of encounters before I realised there's no duration listed on the daze effect. I've checked for errata, but I guess a power this high level that was in a Dragon article doesn't get to see much use, as there's nothing about it on WotC's forums.

What would be a reasonable duration for the daze? Save ends seems too powerful for an encounter power, even at Epic level. The default for Encounter stuns is until end of attacker's next turn, but since this is triggered on an opponent's turn that would make the duration highly variable.

I'm tending to think that until start of the opponent's next turn is reasonable. Does that seem right?

 

[Pour]

Hah, imagine it actually was dazed (no save)? I'd actually be okay with (save ends) on the dazed as there are many riders on modern solos which help mitigate save conditions, and elites, standards, and minions really should feel the wrath of a level 27 encounter power without remorse. Maybe other DMs feel differently.

 

[Ferghis]

My guess is that it should be end of enemy's next turn.

This isn't as variable as it might sound at first blush: the adjective "next" dismisses the notion that it might be the current turn, should the power be interrupting the target's actions. At least in my mind.

 

[pemerton]

How does your table adjudicate "during turn" dazes? Assuming that the dazing of the target means that they are dazed for the turn that they have just started, then I would have it last until the start of their next turn. That way they are dazed for one turn, and everyone gets one turn to belt on them while they are dazed - which is pretty standard for conditions imposed by encounter powers.

 

[MarkB]

Hmm, looks like I managed to screw up the topic title.

Thanks for the replies.

How does your table adjudicate "during turn" dazes?

The effect is applied immediately. If the subject has already taken one or more actions, that means his turn ends.

Assuming that the dazing of the target means that they are dazed for the turn that they have just started, then I would have it last until the start of their next turn. That way they are dazed for one turn, and everyone gets one turn to belt on them while they are dazed - which is pretty standard for conditions imposed by encounter powers.

Thanks, that pretty much aligns with what I was thinking. In some respects it's more powerful than "save ends", as it's guaranteed to last a round - having it occur on the subject's own turn would otherwise mean that he might save against it almost immediately.

I think Ferghis's suggestion of having it last until the end of the subject's next turn would be too powerful, as he'd be reduced to a single action on two turns.

 

[keterys]

Either end of the subject's current turn or start of its next turn would be appropriate.

 

[FLAvatar]

honestly, once our warlord busted this power out, it took almost 2 levels until a monster actually survived until the end of its turn for it to matter. Once we noticed the lack of a duration, we went with until the end of the current turn.

 

[keterys]

Yeah, that's roughly my inclination as well

 

[Ferghis]

Hmm, looks like I managed to screw up the topic title.

You can correct it by editing your first post. It took me a while to figure it out. I think you have to go to "advanced" once you're editing it, or something like that.

In some respects it's more powerful than "save ends", as it's guaranteed to last a round - having it occur on the subject's own turn would otherwise mean that he might save against it almost immediately.

Many epic level monsters shake off no-save dazed and stunned early, so, while there is an advantage, it's not always the sweet deliciousness that the effect was at heroic or paragon.

I think Ferghis's suggestion of having it last until the end of the subject's next turn would be too powerful, as he'd be reduced to a single action on two turns.

He might be, if you're using the power in the middle of that enemy's turn, and if the basic attack hits. But that's two ifs, and it is a level 27 power, for the love of Tiamat. If the enemy happens to attack you at the end of their turn, and the daze ends at the start of the next turn, the enemy only loses immediate and opportunity actions despite the fact that you hit them with a dazing power.

I don't know, but I think "end of next turn" is the only way to gain the real benefit of the dazing effect. If the whole party can't act (barring other powers) from when the effect is inflicted to when it expires AND you're not guaranteed to deny some of the target's actions, you're only really getting a fraction of the benefit I expect when I'm told a power dazes. I guess "start of next turn" would be close enough.

 

[MarkB]

You can correct it by editing your first post. It took me a while to figure it out. I think you have to go to "advanced" once you're editing it, or something like that.

Thanks for the tip - sorted.

He might be, if you're using the power in the middle of that enemy's turn, and if the basic attack hits. But that's two ifs, and it is a level 27 power, for the love of Tiamat. If the enemy happens to attack you at the end of their turn, and the daze ends at the start of the next turn, the enemy only loses immediate and opportunity actions despite the fact that you hit them with a dazing power.

I don't know, but I think "end of next turn" is the only way to gain the real benefit of the dazing effect. If the whole party can't act (barring other powers) from when the effect is inflicted to when it expires AND you're not guaranteed to deny some of the target's actions, you're only really getting a fraction of the benefit I expect when I'm told a power dazes. I guess "start of next turn" would be close enough.

The trigger for the power is the opponent starting their turn, so if it works, it will affect them for their entire turn.