OD&D 4 me (April Fools)

[delericho]

After preparing and running my first 4E "light" playtest with my group, I definitely can say that the preparation seemed to have dropped considerably. I used exclusively kobolds in my encounters, and I didn't create a single write-up on my own. That was a serious time-saver.

Is this really a surprise? The big drain on prep-time in 3.5e always came with statting up custom NPCs, especially at high level.

A couple of weeks ago, I created an adventure for 6th level PCs, using the pre-gen lizardfolk from MM4 (and the variant lizardfolk from MM3), traps from the DMG and DMG2 (or was it Dungeonscape?), a black dragon from Draconomicon, and maps downloaded from Wizards.com. The whole thing took less than an hour to prep, and we played through it in a single six-hour session.

As long as the DM is happy to restrict himself to the bank of pre-generated elements, prep time will be very quick indeed. And, in fact, 3.5e has the edge here, simply by virtue of that bank of pre-generated elements being so much bigger. The real test of 4e prep will come when DMs start advancing monsters, adding class levels and templates (or equivalent), and otherwise stepping off the beaten path. In which area there are big savings to be had, and to be fair to it, 4e is looking pretty good so far.

 

[Rel]

I dearly love Basic D&D, but my group would revolt if I tried to get them to play it again. While it is really easy to DM, the sparseness of mechanics and lack of tactical combat makes the game rather lackluster for players (at least mine). Plus there are some real issues I have with early D&D- the high death rate, the 1st level wizard that's useless after he casts his one sleep spell, the incompetent thief (but boy can he climb walls), the tons of save or die effects, etc.

I think that the combat can be as tactical as the players want if the GM is willing to work with them (at my gaming table I do the best I can to work with the players). If they want to trip an opponent or "bull rush" them then I can just have them and the foe each roll a d20 and see who rolls the most under their Strength. Stuff like that. A simple mechanic is a flexible mechanic.

As for the spells, first of all, for anybody who doesn't know, they were called "Magic Users" back then. That Magic User is going to have to realize that he's "paying his dues" for later on when he's the most powerful member of the party. He should still be able to contribute to their efforts after he's cast his Sleep Spell if he's creative (again, my willingness to work with the player). If he's not satisfied or capable of that, he probably shouldn't be playing a Magic User in the first place.

 

[nerfherder]

It's all very clear now. That is the direction my games should be headed.

I think it's great that you've re-discovered your sense of wonder.

 

[Morrus]

Rel, you really should know better. This is not a 4E thread. I'm moving it to General.

Really, I don't have time to babysit you.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Sure Rel, we all know you just want to be able to give out your own slimy mule bones to the party and not have the players whining about wealth-by-level guidelines and nerfing the party.

Seriously, I hope you and your friends all the best with it. For me I'm looking for a middle ground. I want some of the great player options and features that really came to life with 3e without bogging the game down as much as it can. I want more DM lattitude and less prep time, but I also appreciate some of the consistency that can come about with the increased complexity of the rules. GM fiat is great up to a point but like anything, too much can be just as bad as too little.

I'm hopeful that 4e will land somewhere near that middle ground I'm looking for.

 

[Jdvn1]

I mean what's at the heart of gaming? Fun. Imagination. Stories. Mystery. Magic.

Seems like I've let those fall by the wayside amid all the discussions of tactics, balance, "what's core?", "does this model reality?", and "where's the verisimilitude?" When did I start using the word "verisimilitude" on a regular basis anyway?

I agree with all of these sentiments--when I started playing, it was all about fun, imagination, stories, mysteries, and magic. We didn't worry much about modeling reality and never used the word verisimilitude.

... But I started with 3e.

I don't think it's about the system but about how you and your players approach it. I'm not sure I even encountered the word "versimilitude" until EN World, then I would discuss it with my friends.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I'll agree that at a certain point, rules can be the enemy of imagination. But if you've got a good GM and good players who trust him, the rules don't have to get in the way. They can provide a solid framework within which the players can operate with an understanding of what they should be able to do and what they shouldn't, and the GM is free to disregard the rules when it makes sense to do so.

I'd like to think I can have wonder and imagination and all that in my 3e games, because it also offers me satisfaction in the other areas that 1e doesn't.

As usual, it comes down to the people, not the game.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Is this really a surprise?

From what perspective? From soneone going into D&D 4 with only 3.5 experience and knowing nothing about its design goals and changes? Absolutely.

For someone totally into the hype of 4E and knowing what the designers are aiming for? I would have been surprised if it didn't work!

It worked as advertised. I like that. I don't need to create stat-blocks, since the MM has provided them for me.
To be honest, I am wrong. I created a stat-block, but I didn't use it. I wanted to add a Goblin Minion, but the adventure didn't get to that point. I think it took me 5 minutes to recombine some of the Goblin and Kobold Minion stats. Though I don't know if it would have taken me more then that in 3E - but then, in 3E, I would have already have the "Minion", and instead create the Picador. (And I assume Goblin Minions will be in the real MM, too).

So, no, I was not surprised. I was just happy.

 

[Dinkeldog]

I've always believed that OD&D is actually the direct progenitor of 3E. There are actually prestige classes in OD&D (Druid, for example), and it's very miniatures-based. Granted, we usually put our miniatures on a hex-grid.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Unless it's for moderation, you guys probably don't see me around here much lately. I've been pondering exactly why that is and I had an epiphany about it this weekend that I knew you'd want to know about: OD&D is really the direction I want to be headed.

I mean what's at the heart of gaming? Fun. Imagination. Stories. Mystery. Magic.

Seems like I've let those fall by the wayside amid all the discussions of tactics, balance, "what's core?", "does this model reality?", and "where's the verisimilitude?" When did I start using the word "verisimilitude" on a regular basis anyway?

With Gary passing recently, it had me reflecting back on gaming with him this past GenCon and how much pure fun that was. None of the other BS that we're constantly reading about here on the boards. Just the magic of enjoyment that comes from exploring a dungeon, falling down a 10' pit and smashing skeletons while finding a Shield +1.

There were no attacks of opportunity (although Gary could have given somebody one if he felt it was warranted: GM judgement at work). There was no counting squares. There was no big list of abilities that could be used 1/day. There were no skills to track. We had Sleep and Charm Person and we LIKED IT. And for anything else you could make a Dex check.

Just think of how much easier that is to keep track of. How much easier is it to PREPARE for?! When I think of running other versions of D&D, I think my players must assume that I am MADE of free time! And if I'm going to spend the time to prep the game at all then they can certainly live with a more simplified ruleset where I'm granted a bit more GM fiat.

It's all very clear now. That is the direction my games should be headed.

Yep. Great post. I found some of this simplicity in C&C myself, OD&D is taking it back to square 1 which is sometimes a great thing to do.