Odd observation re Skills and levels

[Dandu]

Aren't they normally considered to be overwritten/replaced?

 

[nonsi256]

Aren't they normally considered to be overwritten/replaced?

Exactly!
This is the only case in the game that I know of to overwrite/replace HD.
And here we have another exception to the rules regarding 1st level.
Inconsistency #3 is it, or are there more ?

 

[Greenfield]

Then think about templated PC's, where their "first level" is in something like "being a Half Dragon". Do they lose out on the x4 (or x6) multiplier?

If not, why not?

 

[agrelic]

I wonder if these bonus skill points can't be re-phrased as a certain number of bonus Skill Focus feats, and then a note in the multi-classing rules to say that if you multi-class into a new class that would have more, then you immediately gain additional bonus Skill Focus feats equal to the difference.

That's getting very close to the Pathfinder rules for skills. While I've never played a pathfinder game, I like how they handle skill points/class skills. I'd recommend it as a possible fix for the issues that were brought up.

 

[irdeggman]

It's one of the less thought out rules in 3.5, IMO, together with max hp at first level.

Sure, it makes sense to give starting characters some kind of boost to make sure they're not totally useless (starting out with 1hp and/or 1 skill point isn't much fun)

However, it immediately brings up the power decision for multiclassing:
If you're building a Multiclass character that depends on skills, take your first level in the class with the highest number of skillpoints/lvl, because you'll be getting the most out of it at that level.
If you're building a Multiclass fighter character, take the class with the highest HD at first level, because those hp will be maxed.

Actually the max hit points is a very well thought out rule. It increases survival for those with small HD (e.g., wizards).

Yeah you could take a level of fighter to boost your "wizard's" survivability but you lose a level of spell casting - a terrible trade off in the long run.

If you are building a character that depends on skills - well then of course you will take your first level in a class with a high number of skill points but then again you will be taking most of your class levels in classes with a large number of skill points anyway right?

 

[kitcik]

Then think about templated PC's, where their "first level" is in something like "being a Half Dragon". Do they lose out on the x4 (or x6) multiplier?

If not, why not?

I am not a template expert, but looking at a race where you have to take racial hit dice (i.e. "take a level" in monstrous humanoid), the rule is spelled out:

A monstrous humanoid has the following features.

• Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

I assume templates would act similarly, but I don't know where the RAW is.

 

[Herzog]

Template modifiers are a measure of how powerfull a race is, and how much you should adjust the XP table to account for that.

You do not actually get ANYTHING for level adjustments (no hp, no skillpoints, no ability bonuses, not anything).

There is, therefore, no 'first level of a template'. Your first level is your first racial HD or your first class level. You get your x4 multiplier for the skillpoints gained for that level.