Of market leaders, stigmas and widespread appeal...

[Imaro]

This is just some musings on my part, that I thought would be interesting to discuss. There are a few threads about D&D, new players and growing the hobby. While reading over some of these I had a thought... is there a bad side to being the most well known rpg on the market? Let me explain what I mean.

Dungeons & Dragons, IMHO, has always seemed to have a stigma attached to it that I haven't noticed with other rpg's. It seems that in mainstream society D&D either equates to geek hobby or, for those really lost in a time warp, that satanic game. Now this stigma seems to only arise when mentioned to a person who has never played it before. I have on a few occasions approached people I thought would love to play D&D and their first reaction is shock that I actually play and then the whole nerd/geek stigma thing kicks in (haven't really gotten the "satanic" thing except once and it was awhile ago.).

Now the funny thing is I have never gotten this reaction when I mention World of Darkness to a person who has never played rpg's before, instead I either get interest in "what exactly it is" or disinterest because the person isn't into horror (though I will admit that Vampire at times can draw the "goth" comment)... but I can't remember a time where I got the nerd/geek presumption.

Now this is all ancedotal evidence, but I wonder... is this something that has arisen because D&D has allowed itself to be branded this way for so long? And does it have an effect when trying to broaden the market beyond those who already play rpg's? With all the talk of using 4e to bring in new players I wonder if this isn't D&D's biggest hurdle? Mainstream likes what is considered cool, and I wonder how D&D could go about becoming "cool" to todays audience.

Any thoughts or opinions?

 

[Mallus]

Dungeons & Dragons, IMHO, has always seemed to have a stigma attached to it that I haven't noticed with other rpg's.

That's because D&D is the only RPG most 'mainstream' people have ever heard of.

They would think GURPS players were dorks too if they knew what it was.

 

[Imaro]

That's because D&D is the only RPG most 'mainstream' people have ever heard of.

They would think GURPS players were dorks too if they knew what it was.

Well I remember when Vampire first came out, it wasn't (to my recollection) necessarily associated with geekdom/nerdom in the same way D&D was (like I said earlier, maybe some goth connotations at times). Now maybe this had alot to do with Anne Rice making Vampires cool again, but it still boils down to making something cool. In fact I think one of the reasons White Wolf did succeed so well when they first brought their World of Darkness games out was that they appealed to a range outside the traditional rpg'ers of that time. Maybe not total mainstream appeal, but during that time I knew just as many people that had heard of Vampire as had heard of D&D.

 

[Tao]

That's because D&D is the only RPG most 'mainstream' people have ever heard of.

They would think GURPS players were dorks too if they knew what it was.

even D&Ders think GURPS players are dorks...

 

[DandD]

Everybody knows that Vampire is for emos and goths... Yeah, every tabletop RPG has a distinguishing clientele that is stereotyped into a specific category.

 

[wedgeski]

It depends, how do you present the question? I can't imagine saying to someone, "Hey do you fancy playing World of Darkness?" without them coming back with, "Dunno, what is it?", assuming they've never heard of it. This invites discussion, and avoids preconception.

But *everyone's* heard of D&D, and the stigmas associated with it. "Hey, do you fancy playing D&D?" is received with mental images of fat, smelly nerds having roleplay sex with eachother in their parents' basement. Response? "Er, no, thanks, I'd rather do something remotely cool."

 

[DandD]

"World of Darkness? What's that? Or do you mean, World of Warcraft? Yeah, sure, I've got a level 70 toon with (insertstrangename)-equipment. Let's meet on the Blackrock-server."

"... Ehrm, yes, okay."

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

It's the most popular (and in various forms) the oldest RPG of its kind.

It's an easy target. Shrek III didn't exactly put D&D players in a glowing light either. Easy stereotypes. Same goes for recent pot-shots at Fantasy LARPers on UK TV.

Ho hum.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

The golden rule of human life is: Everybody has someone he thinks he has a right to feel superior to. You´ll find enough RPGers that wail about "how we are misrepresented in the media" while making lots of "lolhaha" posts about, for instance, furries on messageboards.

 

[mmadsen]

Dungeons & Dragons, IMHO, has always seemed to have a stigma attached to it that I haven't noticed with other rpg's.

As others have mentioned, I think that's largely a factor of it being the only RPG anyone has heard of.

It seems that in mainstream society D&D either equates to geek hobby or, for those really lost in a time warp, that satanic game. Now this stigma seems to only arise when mentioned to a person who has never played it before. I have on a few occasions approached people I thought would love to play D&D and their first reaction is shock that I actually play and then the whole nerd/geek stigma thing kicks in (haven't really gotten the "satanic" thing except once and it was awhile ago.).

I suppose you should feel flattered.

I think anyone with a hobby needs to recognize that being obsessed with something unusual (and unproductive) is naturally unimpressive -- and the image associated with the hobby is not that of perfectly moderate individuals spending a few hours on Saturday afternoon enjoying their hobby with a few friends; it's of the most obsessive of the obsessed fans.