D&D 5E Of Wizards and specific 5e questions and musings

[KarinsDad]

I play wizards, and while there are some really interesting things they've done for the class in 5e, they've also neutered it prety severely. The concentration mechanic is heart breaking! i understand why they did it, but did it have to be done for the sake of the game? I don't think so. I've played and DMed high level wizards in earlier editions, and somehow we made it work

Talk to your DM about being allowed to cast two concentration spells max instead of one. No matter what anyone else here says on the forum, that is not going to break a game. Having 8 buff spells up in 1E through 3.5 did not necessarily break a game, having 2 up in 5E will not either.

As DM of my table, I do not have any limits on number of concentration spells and it hasn't caused any problems yet at all.

I am also bemoaning the lack of magic item creation. One of the jewels of 3.x was the ability of a PC to craft magic items. Nothing makes a wizard feel like a WIZARD quite like crafting a unique magical item that he has poured gold, time and xp into. Yes, the formula was cumbersome, but, in my experience, it never got out of hand. The restrictions of gold, time and xp were such that most wizards PC's at least at my table) could never make a career out of it, or unbalance the game. I realize that the 5e DMG does mention ways in which a PC can craft an item, but so far the rules are so skeletal as to discourage a PC from even trying, not to mention that the overall attitude of the game seems to do everything in it's power to discourage it.

Again, talk to your DM. Magic item creation is in the DMG. It's lengthy in game time-wise and effort-wise (which is stupid because it's a fricking game), but maybe you can convince him to shorten it some.

Which brings me to the generally low magic flavor of 5e thus far. Our party is now 4th level, and thus far we have not found a single magic item. Not one. I'm not asking for rings of protection and +1 swords, but how about a potion or scroll, just to let us know that they exist! My first order of business upon reaching Balder's Gate was to go hunting for scrolls to add to my spellbook, but nobody can seem to find any rules as to how much a freaking scroll costs! And all the while I am led to believe that I can buy a potion of healing for 50gp. There are no other potions for sale, mind you, but healing pots can certainly be found. That makes no good sense to me. The point is, it ought to be up to the individual DM to decide how much magic will be in his world, and yes, I know he still has that option, but in this, an official 5e adventure, the overall feeling is of a design team determined to make finding or crafting magic items not only difficult, but almost unpleasant.

Again, talk to your DM. Our group of 6 5th level PCs have 13 permanent magic items and it's not harming anything.

 

[Syntallah]

Talk to your DM about being allowed to cast two concentration spells max instead of one. No matter what anyone else here says on the forum, that is not going to break a game. Having 8 buff spells up in 1E through 3.5 did not necessarily break a game, having 2 up in 5E will not either.

As DM of my table, I do not have any limits on number of concentration spells and it hasn't caused any problems yet at all.

Again, talk to your DM. Magic item creation is in the DMG. It's lengthy in game time-wise and effort-wise (which is stupid because it's a fricking game), but maybe you can convince him to shorten it some.

Again, talk to your DM. Our group of 6 5th level PCs have 13 permanent magic items and it's not harming anything.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

OP is a new player with a new DM. The kind of house rules you've adopted have not broken things in your Game, but have a very real possibility of wreaking havoc at alot of tables...

 

[DEFCON 1]

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

OP is a new player with a new DM. The kind of house rules you've adopted have not broken things in your Game, but have a very real possibility of wreaking havoc at alot of tables...

Which they won't find out unless they do it.

So long as the player and the DM jump into the pool with their eyes open, plus have agreed upon the stipulation that as soon as things seem to get out of hand that things can and will be pulled back... a table will never know what can or cannot be massaged in the rules until they try it.

 

[KarinsDad]

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

OP is a new player with a new DM. The kind of house rules you've adopted have not broken things in your Game, but have a very real possibility of wreaking havoc at alot of tables...

Perhaps, but probably not. First off, he has played the game for years (on and off since AD&D). He might be a new 5E player, but such a distinction is relatively meaningless. His problem with 3.5 was feat and PrC bloat, not buffing. So for people like himself (and myself), a single concentration spell is extremely limiting.

So far, people who claim that 2 concentration spells at the same time "have a very real possibility of wreaking havoc at a lot of tables" are relying on LESS than anecdotal evidence. If you do not try it, how do you know that it will wreak havoc? If I claimed no limit at all, then you might have a point. But 2 is not going to be game breaking (and 2 for the NPC casters make them partially viable threats again).

The very strength of 5E is that is the bare bones D&D that allows for a wide variety of earlier version play styles.

 

[Syntallah]

As DM of my table, I do not have any limits on number of concentration spells and it hasn't caused any problems yet at all.

So far, people who claim that 2 concentration spells at the same time "have a very real possibility of wreaking havoc at a lot of tables" are relying on LESS than anecdotal evidence. If you do not try it, how do you know that it will wreak havoc? If I claimed no limit at all, then you might have a point. But 2 is not going to be game breaking (and 2 for the NPC casters make them partially viable threats again).

Seems to be a bit contradicting… but then again, a good portion of your posts seem to be pretty pro-wizard, so naturally you are going to lean away from any mechanic that limits them.

Whatever though, man. I personally think WOTC did a good job with the Concentration mechanic [not perfect, I myself lowered the minimum DC to 5], and simply wanted to let the OP know that the mechanic is there for a reason and not to get swept up by all the “well, at my table…” comments.

 

[KarinsDad]

Seems to be a bit contradicting… but then again, a good portion of your posts seem to be pretty pro-wizard, so naturally you are going to lean away from any mechanic that limits them.

Not contradictory. I allow as many concentration spells up for casters as they can manage. So allowing 2 is less than not having a limit on number at all. If there is not yet an issue with unlimited number, then there will not be for just 2.

Whatever though, man. I personally think WOTC did a good job with the Concentration mechanic [not perfect, I myself lowered the minimum DC to 5], and simply wanted to let the OP know that the mechanic is there for a reason and not to get swept up by all the “well, at my table…” comments.

So, your house rules on concentration are fine, but mine are not. Got it.

All mechanics are there for a reason. Why differentiate between those that you think are ok to modify and those that I think are ok to modify? Very few tables play by any sort of strict RAW anyway.

The OP came asking for help. You are saying that he should "not to get swept up by all the “well, at my table…” comments" when those are the types of comments that might help him at his table. Sorry. If someone asks for help, I'll hand out my opinion on what the issue is and maybe how to fix it. You want to stifle suggestions, be my guest. But there are quite a few core rules that could use with some tweaking, especially if one wants to play in certain styles that the core rules seem to try to hinder.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The very strength of 5E is that is the bare bones D&D that allows for a wide variety of earlier version play styles.

Time for a lame metaphor:

You can break glass, you can even break tempered glass, but try breaking sand...

sorry 'bout that folks


But, yeah, worrying about 'breaking' 5e is missing the point. You can modify 5e all you want. If you want, you can even do so to 'fix' it (whatever that may mean to you) - but, unless you already have, don't worry too much about 'breaking' it. It's designed with a lot of wiggle-room in there, already. Plenty of room to make wizards a little more overpowered, or insert a questionable homebrew class, or whatever else you feel like as DM. Even if it does cause issues, you can compensate for them on the fly, since you're no more bound by your homebrew rules than by the official rules.

 

[cthulhu42]

As a poster in another thread pointed out, anything that would deny dex to AC instead grants advantage. Anytime the designers could swap out an old mechanic for advantage, they did. All part of the speed up combat mindset. Either way the defender is penalized. (If you are houseruling it to "No dex bonus" for certain statuses like incapacitated, your should also remove the advantage b/c you are double penalizing the defender at that point.

Huh! How did I miss that? It does solve my issue. Can you give me a page number?

 

[neobolts]

Huh! How did I miss that? It does solve my issue. Can you give me a page number?

It's not a single rule saying X became Y, per se. It's more like they did a "find and replace" to during the design process.

If you look at PHB Appendix A: Conditions (p290), each of the conditions that in 3e denied dex bonus have all been changed to granting advantage to attackers instead (paralyzed and pertrified for example).

(Side note: I used "incapacitated" as an example in the earlier post, but I meant to say "unconscious". They are not the same status.)

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

We play 3.5 when I don't want to DM and had a session Wed night. I was never so happy for 5e concentration rules as well the game ground to a halt as a couple players spent a half hour plus trying to maximize the layers of buffs they wanted us to cast before a fight with a mummy and some undead. Which ones go first due to duration, who gets what, add in bonuses, oh heck we forgot the Bard can cast this so lets redo this all... When it was over after a fight one player was like "yeah that was great!" and I was like "Dear lord I hate this edition". So obviously mileage varies. Other than advantage the change to concentration is one of my favorite features of 5e, but going 3e style isn't going to ruin a game if all the players like it that way.