Offensive use for Mage Armor?

[Gaiden]

Sometimes the SRD differs from the PHB, I will check when I get home and report back what I find - I could be recalling something from 2E (I know, how archaic).

I like my ruling though

 

[Jay Lofstead]

Just think about this logically. Giving the incorporeal creature mage armor makes an armor-like force effect around that creature. It moves with the creature much like armor would. Having it imprison and potentially damage the creature doesn't make sense.

If you want to be creative with this, look at it more this way. If an incorporeal creature is surrounded by a force effect, it cannot go through walls and such. This would keep it "stuck" in the area (albeit with a +4 to AC). This doesn't 100% make sense, but it is something I could allow.

That is a nice, creative use of the spell that makes sense. Going beyond that would make the spell truly offensive rather than defensive.

 

[hammymchamham]

why not just treat it as a gauntlet strike. deals 1d3 damage for a medium sized creature, and is an unarmed strike, so the incorporeal creature gets an AoO

darnit, I guess its been discussed.. :grumble:

 

[IceBear]

Sometimes the SRD differs from the PHB, I will check when I get home and report back what I find - I could be recalling something from 2E (I know, how archaic).

I like my ruling though

Yes, I know that the SRD sometimes differs from the PHB, but I'm 100% certain that the PHB states the same thing - that Medium and Heavy armor comes with gauntlets. So, while you have an arcane spell failure chance in banded mail, it's not impossible, so gauntlets do not prevent spellcasting with somantic components.

IceBear

 

[IceBear]

why not just treat it as a gauntlet strike. deals 1d3 damage for a medium sized creature, and is an unarmed strike, so the incorporeal creature gets an AoO

darnit, I guess its been discussed.. :grumble:

The problem with that ruling is twofold:

1) This would mean that casting mage armor on yourself should allow you to punch someone (not just an incorpreal creature) as if you were wearing gauntlets. This is mentioned nowhere in the spell, makes a defensive spell into a defensive/offensive spell, and is stretching the fluff text of the spell too far.

2) Imagine a monk fighting incorpreal monsters while wearing bracers of armor.

IceBear

 

[Wippit Guud]

Ok, discussing if gauntlets foul up spell casting is not pertinent:

Clerics and Paladins can wear full plate mail.
Full Plate mail comes with gauntlets (we all know that)
Nowhere does it say they can't cast S spells.

No point in looking it up.

 

[IceBear]

I agree, it's not relevant to this discussion. However, since armor has no effect on divine spells with somantic components, that's not proof that gauntlets have no effect on spellcasting.

IceBear

 

[Wippit Guud]

Umm... does that make sense?

However, since armor has no effect on divine spells with somantic components, that's not proof that gauntlets have no effect on spellcasting.

Aren't divine spells considered spellcasting?

 

[IceBear]

Whooops - should have said *arcane* spellcasting. And of course they do have impact on arcane spellcasting via the spell failure chance that comes with the armor (which in the case of medium and heavy armor) includes gauntlets.

Your logic was that because a cleric or paladin could cast divine spells with gauntlets on (via full plate), then gauntlets had no impact on spellcasting. My point was just that you can't use divine casters when determining whether or not armor/gauntlets influence spellcasting (in general) as they don't have spell failure chances anyway.

This is getting even MORE offtopic

IceBear

 

[Wippit Guud]

Well... Scale mail comes with gauntlets:

Scale Mail: This is a coat and leggings (and perhaps a separate skirt) of leather covered with overlapping pieces of metal, much like the scales of a fish. It includes gauntlets.

A breast plate comes with no gauntlets:

Breastplate: A breastplate covers the front and back. It comes with a helmet and matching greaves (plates to cover the lower legs). A light suit or skirt of studded leather beneath the breastplate protects limbs without restricting movement much.

Both weight the same amount. Both have the same arcane spell failure. (25%)

If anything, I'd expect scale mail to have a higher failure because it has gauntlets. But it doesn't. By that, we can deduce (woo Sherlock Holmes terms) that gauntlets don't add spell failure.

Now, the only place I can see this being contradicted is S&F partial armor rules, but I don't have the book at work.