D&D 5E Official D&D Basic Discussion Thread

[occam]

EDIT - Hold the news! Maybe those trainers aren't totally awful - they trained those PCs to make (without a check!) a STR SCORE leap if they have a 10' running start! So Mrs STR 20 Fighter can straight-up running leap 20ft no check (which makes "Remarkable Athlete" even more hilariously bad). You only need to check to clear obstacles or land in bad terrain. Even no start gives Mrs STR 20 a 10ft leap. Noice. Vertical jumping she's no slouch either - assuming she's 6' tall and has a 10' run-up, she can (no check) catch on to a ledge 19ft up! With a check the DM may allow her to go higher.

Now, come on, she'd only be able to reach a 17-foot-high ledge (3 + STR mod (5) + 6 + 0.5*6). Because reaching 19 feet high would be preposterous.

 

[RotGrub]

They found it appropriate to call out that some DMs might want more realism for equipment sizes, but apparently those same DMs don't need a side bar variant rule to replace overnight healing to full HP, hit dice, and second wind.

 

[Morlock]

Hmm, Dragonlance quotes. Would they do that if they weren't intending to release (or license) Dragonlance?

After more time to think, this is going to make two-weapon fighters start falling behind two-handers pretty significantly starting at 5th level. While two-weapon fighting was potentially a little too good before (when used with the Fighting Style), now it's quite a bit worse damage-wise, especially when compared with the new Great Weapon Fighting Style. True, you get a little more flexibility: potentially one extra target, higher AC with a Two-Weapon Defense feat, the option to dump Strength and pump Dexterity. I'm not sure it's worth it; it seems like this is going to be noticeable problem for two-weapon fighters at higher levels.

And don't even get me started on how messed up Great Weapon Fighting is with a greataxe compared to a greatsword or a maul.

I'm curious, is there any constituency for "realism over balance"? Or, is "balance over realism" totally ascendant? I like the idea of some realism in there. Maybe a middle ground between the two extremes. Something that acknowledges that people wore armor because it worked, not because they didn't take classes in Barbarian (most real barbarians would have loved to have a hauberk). That (in certain eras) people used swords when they could afford them because they were better weapons than axes, not because they thought swords were cooler. That kind of thing.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't have a problem with short rest as written. I thought it was rather self-explanatory. Resting 60 to 121 minutes = 1 short rest, resting 120 to 179 minutes equals 2 short rests, and so on. How much activity do you have to do before taking an additional short rest? Zero. Can fighters take multiple short rests in order to second wind themselves back to maximum hit points while hording their healing dice? Yes they can.

Interesting reading. Pretty sure WotC are going to want to clear this one up, myself, because we now have quite a number of potentially valid readings, and that is definitely not intended, because whenever it's intended, they say "Variant" or the like.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Now, come on, she'd only be able to reach a 17-foot-high ledge (3 + STR mod (5) + 6 + 0.5*6). Because reaching 19 feet high would be preposterous.

Sorry, you are quite correct. She could only jump on top of a double-decker bus!

That said seems fair play and turn about if we have put up with several paragraphs of how awesome MAGICKYMAGIC is.

 

[Keldryn]

Oh, deadlift, fair enough. Still a little skeptical that that should be STR 10, because I'm pretty sure any guy who can deadlift 290 isn't exactly average, and that month of training is fairly serious and involves a lot of calories, but there we go.

This average strength reflects a society where individuals are far more physically active than in our modern-day world, and where the economy is based largely on physical labor. The average guy in a pre-industrial society was likely significantly stronger than the average guy in a 21st century industrialized nation.


A STR 10 individual being able to push, lift, or pull 300 lbs doesn't mean that he can do 10 reps at that weight. ;-) I can't deadlift 300 lbs (yet; looks like my 1 rep max is 276), but I'm also a 40 year-old computer programmer who has lived a fairly sedentary life.


Looking at performance standards from competitive weightlifting, a 300 lb 1RM would place an average man at or just shy of the Intermediate training level (trained regularly for up to a couple of years). If you consider performing physical labor under pre-industrial conditions as a form of weight training, that 300 lbs doesn't sound too far off. At least for men; but we're not playing AD&D 1e here.


http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/DeadliftStandards.html

 

[RotGrub]

Hmm, Dragonlance quotes. Would they do that if they weren't intending to release (or license) Dragonlance?



I'm curious, is there any constituency for "realism over balance"? Or, is "balance over realism" totally ascendant? I like the idea of some realism in there. Maybe a middle ground between the two extremes. Something that acknowledges that people wore armor because it worked, not because they didn't take classes in Barbarian (most real barbarians would have loved to have a hauberk). That (in certain eras) people used swords when they could afford them because they were better weapons than axes, not because they thought swords were cooler. That kind of thing.

I usually add house rules to make the game more realistic. I've been correcting my D&D game that way since 1e.

IMO, over balance is overrated.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This average strength reflects a society where individuals are far more physically active than in our modern-day world, and where the economy is based largely on physical labor. The average guy in a pre-industrial society was likely significantly stronger than the average guy in a 21st century industrialized nation.

A STR 10 individual being able to push, lift, or pull 300 lbs doesn't mean that he can do 10 reps at that weight. ;-) I can't deadlift 300 lbs (yet; looks like my 1 rep max is 276), but I'm also a 40 year-old computer programmer who has lived a fairly sedentary life.

Looking at performance standards from competitive weightlifting, a 300 lb 1RM would place an average man at or just shy of the Intermediate training level (trained regularly for up to a couple of years). If you consider performing physical labor under pre-industrial conditions as a form of weight training, that 300 lbs doesn't sound too far off. At least for men; but we're not playing AD&D 1e here.

http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/DeadliftStandards.html

As someone with some archaeological training, and a special interest in how people's bodies changed in different societies, I have to say, I am very very very very unconvinced that the average sort of people around in, say, medieval times, could, on the whole, lift more than the several inches taller, vastly better fed, people of today (and D&D people seem to be short - humans only go up to "just over 6' tall" ). I think it's probably easier and fairer to say this is just a strange simplification - especially as you can also only push-pull 300lbs, and I know from experience that I can't deadlift 300lbs, but I sure as hell can push something that weighs 300lbs (with a fair bit of swearing, admittedly).

Mostly I'm just totally unfairly mocking amusing simplifications in D&D's rules. Man I am still vexed by "walking more than eight hours..." deal though jeez.

 

[Agamon]

Player: "I'm going to search the..."

DM: "Just roll already. Stop talking to me, geez."

I like that the search rules allow some leeway. If you just want to let the players allow their PCs to take the time to search everything and just roll, go ahead. I prefer to let them tell me where they are looking. that way, they might not have to roll.


Situation: There's a trap door under the rug.

Player: "I look under the rug."

Question: Does the PC find the now obvious door, or does he have to roll to find it for some reason?


Same situation, but...

Player: "I'm just going to look around the room for a couple minutes"

Here's a good place to roll, to see if the PC thinks to look under the rug even if the player didn't.


The best of both worlds, excellent!

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Same situation, but...

Player: "I'm just going to look around the room for a couple minutes"

Here's a good place to roll, to see if the PC thinks to look under the rug even if the player didn't.


The best of both worlds, excellent!

Sidebar says no, as I read it, because it specifically says "I search the room for X period" is NOT okay.

Sidebar says you'd have to say something like "I'm searching the floor of the room" to even get the roll.

So no, not best of both worlds if you obey the sidebar. Best of both worlds if you ignore it entirely. To be clear, there is no way you can be right, because the sidebar explicitly says not to give rolls for hidden objects/things for "general" searching. That's the entire purpose of the sidebar. There would be no reason for it to exist otherwise.