Official Tomb of Horrors 3.5 conversion (merged)

[Slobber Monster]

That's a point I was making in my post - as written, sheer ego and curiosity is the only thing that drives people onward into that godsforsaken place. Gary did have a few places like that littered in his campaign worlds, according to him and some others.

This is what makes me somewhat reluctant to tie it into a story arc. The Tomb just seems better if the players are potentially undone by hubris and greed. Hmmm... oh well, I've got a couple of months to decide.

 

[painandgreed]

Its a matter of focus; why worry about prepping something that will kill your PCs (thats easy), when its just as much work (and more rewarding) to set up interesting challenges the PCs have a chance of handling?

Because if you don't, players will get brazen and attack everything you put in front of them because they are confident that they can defeat it. They stop thinking and the game stops becoming a challenge. A both a DM and a player, I think there has to be a chance of running across something that can't be handled. There should be reasonable clues that it is too rough so it can be avoided or the ability to run away, but there should always be the possiblity of something bigger.

Sometimes the players get ambitious and decide to take on something bigger than they normally could expect to handle. If they succeed, they are well rewarded and even if they don't it usually makes for a memorable (and enjoyed) game.

In the past, I've specifically use the Tomb of Horrors as an example. The players were told at 1st level that the Tomb of Horrors was mapped out and if they happened to stumble across it at first level and dared to venture inside, they were going to get what they deserved. Of course, it would be doubtful that the players would ever head to that area of the world and be able to fight their way through the widerness surrounding it, but it was the easy example of how they needed to pay attention to what they were doing. The main plot hooks thrown out to PCs are usually level appropriate because those are the ones that their characters would be paying attention to, however I usually try to also inform them of something higher than their level as well as lower and if in the mood, the inform me before the session what their plans are.

 

[Remathilis]

Because if you don't, players will get brazen and attack everything you put in front of them because they are confident that they can defeat it. They stop thinking and the game stops becoming a challenge. A both a DM and a player, I think there has to be a chance of running across something that can't be handled. There should be reasonable clues that it is too rough so it can be avoided or the ability to run away, but there should always be the possiblity of something bigger.

Sometimes the players get ambitious and decide to take on something bigger than they normally could expect to handle. If they succeed, they are well rewarded and even if they don't it usually makes for a memorable (and enjoyed) game.

In the past, I've specifically use the Tomb of Horrors as an example. The players were told at 1st level that the Tomb of Horrors was mapped out and if they happened to stumble across it at first level and dared to venture inside, they were going to get what they deserved. Of course, it would be doubtful that the players would ever head to that area of the world and be able to fight their way through the widerness surrounding it, but it was the easy example of how they needed to pay attention to what they were doing. The main plot hooks thrown out to PCs are usually level appropriate because those are the ones that their characters would be paying attention to, however I usually try to also inform them of something higher than their level as well as lower and if in the mood, the inform me before the session what their plans are.

I think this is MY point: why EVEN BOTHER telling the PCs that the ToH was there at first level? I know, my players would know, and everyone else knows that they can't possibly try it at first level (and would have a rough time at 9th) so why even MENTION its there?

"Hey guys, this is my campagin setting. By the way, dungeons X, Y, and Z are all deathtraps. What do you want to do first?"

Don't get me wrong, there are LOTS of challenges the PCs know they can't yet face: the Lord of Blades, Vol, The Black Dragon in Q'barra, the Daelkyr, etc. They don't go seeking those challenges. Why give the players a roadmap to certain doom and laugh at them when they try it? If the PCs are going to die by mention the ToH at 3rd level, why bring it up at all?

 

[Crothian]

why bring it up at all?

To set it up for later down the campaign. It works a lot better in games I've run if the players know legnds of the dangerious places they will goto years later instead of them just learning about them the week before they go in.

 

[painandgreed]

I think this is MY point: why EVEN BOTHER telling the PCs that the ToH was there at first level? I know, my players would know, and everyone else knows that they can't possibly try it at first level (and would have a rough time at 9th) so why even MENTION its there?

Because although they're told that it is there (as an example), they aren't told when they stumble across it. They're supposed to figure out if that hole in the ground is the Tomb of Horrors or not in character. Can the party deal with the bandits or dungeon they hear about or encounter? They'll either have to gather information on it or personally test it.

 

[Henry]

Don't get me wrong, there are LOTS of challenges the PCs know they can't yet face: the Lord of Blades, Vol, The Black Dragon in Q'barra, the Daelkyr, etc. They don't go seeking those challenges. Why give the players a roadmap to certain doom and laugh at them when they try it? If the PCs are going to die by mention the ToH at 3rd level, why bring it up at all?

Think of Acererak as Greyhawk's Vol; better yet, think of big A. as the equivalent to the Daelkyr! Sealed away, doing their thing, being nasty, but if you choose to venture into Khyber, searching for Dragonshards, riches, and wealth, then you sew what you reap. Just as your players may have read of the Daelkyr and have no intention of going after them, then there are tales of Acererak and his untold riches, sitting there, taunting you like an imp dancing a jig on a bookshelf...

Gary put that together for a need that really doesn't exist as much anymore; people rarely BYOC to conventions, people who boast of ultra-powerful characters are retorted with "big deal" and cries of "munchkin", and player capability is measured less by player cunning in keepiong characters alive, and more by helping craft a good story. The fact that it survives as a "gamer legend" among players of earlier editions is telling; had it been a "mediocre adventure" or if it had been an unavoidable death trap, then it would not have garnered such an urban legend-type status.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I think the best answer to the Tomb of Horrors is the 2nd edition Clone spell.
Never leave home without it.
There is no dishonor in backing up your life, when you are off to a Killer Dungeon.

If you are slain in the Tomb, then you are poorer and wiser ... and alive. You can create another Clone and try again, or decide it was foolish and stay away.

If you cannot cast Clone, have the party mage cast it. If the party mage is not 16th level, hire an NPC to do it, then hide the Clone yourself from any danger.

 

[painandgreed]

I think the best answer to the Tomb of Horrors is the 2nd edition Clone spell.
Never leave home without it.
There is no dishonor in backing up your life, when you are off to a Killer Dungeon.

If you are slain in the Tomb, then you are poorer and wiser ... and alive. You can create another Clone and try again, or decide it was foolish and stay away.

If you cannot cast Clone, have the party mage cast it. If the party mage is not 16th level, hire an NPC to do it, then hide the Clone yourself from any danger.

The gods have given you the guidance to go into the Tomb of Horrors. You should not hide your clone from danger or decide it was foolish and stay away. Failure to follow the guidence of the gods would be treason. Hiding your clone would be treason. Failure to return would be treason. Failure in the Tomb of Horrors to begin with is probably a sign that you are not trying hard enough or perhaps even a secret Vecnaist. Should you discover that you are a secret worshiper of Vecna, please kill yourself so you may be reborn as a faithful clone.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

The Computer wants you to be happy. If you are not happy, you may end up being used as reactor shielding.
The Computer thinks you should go into the Tomb of Horrors. You are a Troubleshooter for the Computer, especially chosen for your skills and talents. Isn't it a great honor to be so chosen for this mission by the Computer? Only traitors would turn aside from their obligations to the Computer.
The Computer knows you can defeat Acererak. The Computer knows it will make you happy to fight Acererak. The Computer wants you to be happy. Only traitors are unhappy, or believe they could not defeat Acererak when the Computer said they could.
The Computer has given you top quality items to use in the Tomb of Horror for your protection. All of these items are experimental, the product of Computer-certified scientific geniuses. The Computer knows you believe in it's capacity to protect you. Only traitors would think the Computer could not protect them.
You will now go into the Tomb of Horrors. The Computer says that now is the time. The Computer is always right. Only traitors doubt the Computer.