Official word on Dragonshield tactics and movement interrupts in general

[Celebrim]

I put my shifty power on the stack and pass priority to the DM.

 

[AllisterH]

I put my shifty power on the stack and pass priority to the DM.

Heh...After all the brouhaha that D&D was going to become M:TGlite when WOTC bought TSR, D&D is FINALLY actually using M:TG design paradigms.

As for the problem, I wonder if the D&D developers have their own version of the FFL? If not, they should.

 

[Kesh]

This will be my first houserule, if Wizards doesn't issue errata about the whole thing. An action is an action, and charge being an action, should not be interrupted on a "move" basis. Charging is rather weak anyway, only allowing a basic attack, so I think it's a fair trade-off for preventing shifting. By removing that, I can't see any real reason to ever charge an opponent, especially if they can shift away before the attack resolves.

 

[Mengu]

Eleran's case 1 is how I had understood it. I thought with Dragonshield Tactics, one shift per round would allow a Dragonshield to possibly escape one attack per round. With the Mearls clarification, I guess it's decent for avoiding getting flanked, or keeping a range attacker engaged, but not near as potent as I had originally thought. Most of the time, the attacker will simply be able to continue to move and take their attack.

I'm rather glad this was clarified (and that I happened to read this thread), since I hadn't even considered I could be misinterpreting it. I guess the key part is, it says "[when] an enemy moves adjacent". It does not say "[when] an enemy ends their movement adjacent to".

I'll have to pay closer attention to a more literal reading of such rules. Makes me wonder what other blatant mistakes I may be making.

 

[thewok]

Because the Dragonshield's Immediate Action is not an interrupt, it is an Immediate Reaction. In other words the reaction does not happen until the trigger is complete. But what they are saying is that the trigger is complete when the opponent is in any square that is adjacent, whether he has completed his move action or not.

After reading Mearls' explanation, it seems like all immediates take place as soon as the triggering condition occurs. The difference between an Interrupt and a Reaction comes from the result of the power. If the triggering condition allows an action to continue (i.e. using tactics to allow the dragonshield to cut off a player's approach to the backfield), then it's a reaction. If it stops something from happening (as in turning a crit into a normal hit), then it's an interrupt.

It's not worded in the best way, But I think that's the general distinction.

 

[Stormtower]

Eleran's case 1 is how I had understood it. I thought with Dragonshield Tactics, one shift per round would allow a Dragonshield to possibly escape one attack per round. With the Mearls clarification, I guess it's decent for avoiding getting flanked, or keeping a range attacker engaged, but not near as potent as I had originally thought. Most of the time, the attacker will simply be able to continue to move and take their attack.

I appreciate Mearls' clarification on this rule. Tactically sound DMs will be counting 10- or 12-squares from their charging PCs when deploying the kobold Dragonshields. This way, they are sure to get one "free miss" out of their Dragonshield Tactics ability. Nice!

 

[brehobit]

The PHB does hit this exact issue. It could be written better. Here is what I've gotten from someone with a PHB. Italics are mine.

Reaction: An immediate reaction lets you act in response to a trigger. The triggering action, event or condition occurs and is completely resolved before you take your reaction, except that you can interrupt a creature's movement.

It apparently goes on provide a bit more detail.

Mark

 

[Kitsune]

So... they left the sentence about movement reactions out...

IN THE RULE TEXT FOR A MODULE WHERE THINGS HAVE MOVEMENT REACTIONS.

 

[Dausuul]

The PHB does hit this exact issue. It could be written better. Here is what I've gotten from someone with a PHB. Italics are mine.

It apparently goes on provide a bit more detail.

Mark

Color me relieved. Even without additional clarifying detail, that's much better than what we got from KotS. Although I agree with Kitsune about the ridiculousness of leaving that line out of an adventure involving dragonshields...

 

[Kitsune]

PHB confirms:

Reaction: An immediate reaction lets you act in
response to a trigger. The triggering action, event, or
condition occurs and is completely resolved before
you take your reaction, except that you can interrupt
a creature’s movement. If a creature triggers your
immediate reaction while moving (by coming into
range, for example), you take your action before the
creature finishes moving but after it has moved at
least 1 square.

I'm still aghast that they left out such a vitally important detail when the first things the new players fight use that detail!