OGC equivalent to Thri-kreen? Green martians!

When did Burroughs describe green martians as running on four feet? I don't recall that from when I read the books.

The very first description of Green Martians in A Princess of Mars, Chapter III: My Advent on Mars describes them as being able to move on all fours.

Five or six had already hatched and the grotesque caricatures which sat blinking in the sunlight were enough to cause me to doubt my sanity. They seemed mostly head, with little scrawny bodies, long necks and six legs, or, as I afterward learned, two legs and two arms, with an intermediary pair of limbs which could be used at will either as arms or legs. Their eyes were set at the extreme sides of their heads a trifle above the center and protruded in such a manner that they could be directed either forward or back and also independently of each other, thus permitting this queer animal to look in any direction, or in two directions at once, without the necessity of turning the head.

Offhand I can't recall any descriptions of the Green Martians running on all fours - but then they usually jump on a Thoat whenever they want to get anywhere in a hurry.

The books do say their limbs are articulated in the same fashion as a White Ape, and if I remember correctly there are several references to White Apes running on four legs.
 

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I've simplified the quadrupedal movement trait to remove excess advantages. But the Quadruped trait applies to creatures with medium size upper torsos and large lower torsos, like centaurs (that's why quadrupeds uses Medium weapons and armor), not large creatures that can drop to all fours.

What "excess advantages" are these? I've previously pointed out you've added advantages, namely use of Large Weapons, a bonus on AC and a bonus on Bull Rush.

Those are a significant improvement from the standard Quadrupedal trait so it ought to cost more RPs.
 

What "excess advantages" are these? I've previously pointed out you've added advantages, namely use of Large Weapons, a bonus on AC and a bonus on Bull Rush.

Those are a significant improvement from the standard Quadrupedal trait so it ought to cost more RPs.
Races with the quadrupedal posture trait only have the advantages while moving quadrupedal, not all of the time, and have to give up their ability to use weapons while doing so unless they buy the additional arms trait (the bonus to ac and resisting bull rush was used in the Shadows of a Dying World rpg for the green martians, and meant to represent that standing on all fours decreased your target surface, making you less easy to hit, and your arms gave you additional support against bull rushes). The actual quadruped trait has inability to use large weapons as a downside due to the fact that centaurs and other hexapeds have medium-size arms, which is why they can't use large weapons.
 

The bonus to ac and resisting bull rush was used in the Shadows of a Dying World rpg for the green martians, and meant to represent that standing on all fours decreased your target surface, making you less easy to hit, and your arms gave you additional support against bull rushes.

Size modifiers to AC are derived from a creature's size category, they don't depend on stance - at least I can't offhand think of any Wotc/Paizo published creature whose size mod to AC changes in that way. If you want to give it an AC bonus for being on all fours I'd make it a circumstance bonus or racial bonus.

As for the Semi-Quadruped issue, the ability to switch between biped and quadruped at will means that the disadvantages for a Multi-Armed creature are minimal, because it will be in whatever stance is most beneficial at the time.

When it Moves, Charges or Bull Rushes (the occasions when it benefits most from the "Quad Mode" of its Semi-Quadruped trait) it can only make a standard attack, so it is only able to use one of its arms to make an attack anyway. Then when it stops, rears on its hind legs and makes a full attack with all its arms it is only able to move a 5-foot step anyway.

It's not a significant disadvantage if it hardly ever penalizes the creature.
 

OP said:
Quadrupedal Movement (1 RP): Green men can use their middle set of limbs as arms or legs. When quadrupedal, his speed increases by +10 feet but his reach is reduced to 5 feet. He must have nothing in his hands to use quadrupedal movement.
As for the Semi-Quadruped issue, the ability to switch between biped and quadruped at will means that the disadvantages for a Multi-Armed creature are minimal, because it will be in whatever stance is most beneficial at the time.
 What I see from this is that the Green Man can choose to have the advantages of a quadruped (with +10 feet speed), or the advantages of not being a quadruped (extra hands, reach). That cannot reasonably be worth less than the cost of being a quadruped (2 points according to Centaurs) and could be worth more. As Cleon points out, there are few times when one would use both advantages fully. For 2 point, I would say keep it as it is, but it takes the Green Man a full round action to stretch out from Quadruped to Biped, or vice versa. If he can swap as a standard action, 3 RP, and if he can switch faster than that, 4 RP. Or just remove that ability entirely, given that:
The very first description of Green Martians in A Princess of Mars, Chapter III: My Advent on Mars describes them as being able to move on all fours. Five or six had already hatched and the grotesque caricatures which sat blinking in the sunlight were enough to cause me to doubt my sanity. They seemed mostly head, with little scrawny bodies, long necks and six legs, or, as I afterward learned, two legs and two arms, with an intermediary pair of limbs which could be used at will either as arms or legs. Their eyes were set at the extreme sides of their heads a trifle above the center and protruded in such a manner that they could be directed either forward or back and also independently of each other, thus permitting this queer animal to look in any direction, or in two directions at once, without the necessity of turning the head.

Offhand I can't recall any descriptions of the Green Martians running on all fours - but then they usually jump on a Thoat whenever they want to get anywhere in a hurry.

The books do say their limbs are articulated in the same fashion as a White Ape, and if I remember correctly there are several references to White Apes running on four legs.

If the only time we see the use of the extra arms as legs is as newly hatched babies, it doesn’t seem they gain any great advantage from using the "intermediary limbs" as a second pair of legs. Why do they never take advantage of this as adults? Maybe they derive no game-mechanical benefits for doing so. Maybe they lose some flexibility in growth to adulthood and can’t effectively use their middle limbs as a second set of legs. Maybe it just takes too long to switch modes as joints twist and get stiff from one configuration. Regardless, it doesn’t seem four legged movement is a hallmark of the race. Maybe some unusual Green Men can still switch between orientations, taking "Semi-Quadruped" as a feat, but if that is its only appearance in the source material, it hardly seems necessary as a racial trait.

What do humans look like under this model, by the way, since they are considerably stronger? Is this intended for a Mars campaign, so other standard races aren't represented, or do they also get STR boosts consistent with the fact we're giving a "weaker than human" source material race a STR bonus compared to humans? It seems a lot easier to keep Human as the baseline, and not provide this race a +4 STR bonus plus large size. I'm not sure why they get CHA dropped - they made friends with John Carter easily enough. Seems like a race custom designed for warriors. I'd expect Barbarians and Monks to gravitate to this as written.

Why Monks? Well, they don't have to drop and retrieve weapons to shift between biped and quadruped. CON and STR bonuses are nice and CHA isn't their strong suit anyway. Now, how does Flurry of Blows work for a guy with 4 arms?​
 
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What I see from this is that the Green Man can choose to have the advantages of a quadruped (with +10 feet speed), or the advantages of not being a quadruped (extra hands, reach). That cannot reasonably be worth less than the cost of being a quadruped (2 points according to Centaurs) and could be worth more. As Cleon points out, there are few times when one would use both advantages fully. For 2 point, I would say keep it as it is, but it takes the Green Man a full round action to stretch out from Quadruped to Biped, or vice versa. If he can swap as a standard action, 3 RP, and if he can switch faster than that, 4 RP. Or just remove that ability entirely, given that:
The trait doesn't provide any the advantages of being quadruped (resistance to tripping; being able to use medium weapons without penalty is phrased as being a benefit rather than a weakness). It provides the benefits of the Fast racial trait (1 RP) while moving quadrupedal but negates Reach (1 RP), and negates two arms. It is qualitatively worse than just taking the Fast racial trait.

This isn't written for a Mars campaign. These green men are designed to be dropped into any given fantasy campaign, and have strength bonus because these statistics are adapted for earth-gravity rather than martian gravity. I'm using red martians = humans as the basis. Since green men are stronger than reds, then fantasy green men are stronger than fantasy humans.
 

While I would agree that, with none of the benefits of quadruped status other than the movement rate change, this is worth the same 1 RP, I question two things:

(a) Is it logical that the extra legs don't make them harder to trip, push back, etc.?

(b) If we're OK with the logic, why not just give them the Fast trait, defined as using the intermediary limbs as extra legs, note that they cannot use Reach or use items held by those limbs while in transit, and be done with it?
 

While I would agree that, with none of the benefits of quadruped status other than the movement rate change, this is worth the same 1 RP, I question two things:

(a) Is it logical that the extra legs don't make them harder to trip, push back, etc.?
I suppose it would, but a +4 against trip attempts (which is what the quadruped trait provides) while giving up the use of two arms and canceling out the Reach racial trait is hardly equivalent to an additional 2 or 3 RPs. It is qualitatively worse than just buying the quadrupedal trait because the extra arms cost extra and are cancelled out by moving quadrupedal. So the character can function as a quadruped part of the time, but cancels out two racial traits at the same time and still has to pay extra for large-size weapons and armor all the time.
 
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Why do they never take advantage of this as adults?​


Probably because the original story was not a single novel, but a serial, which tend to have more continuity errors than novels. It may have been an offhand description, forgotten by the author and not used again. It isn't like serial TV shows don't have one-shot things that in a later episode make you think, "Hey, why don't they just frazzle the whambunitx like they did in that episode last season?"​
 

Probably because the original story was not a single novel, but a serial, which tend to have more continuity errors than novels. It may have been an offhand description, forgotten by the author and not used again. It isn't like serial TV shows don't have one-shot things that in a later episode make you think, "Hey, why don't they just frazzle the whambunitx like they did in that episode last season?"

Quite true, but to me, those one of continuity glitches are not seminal aspects of the characters (or, in this case, races) which need to make their way to game mechanics. As a one off description of newborns, if it never shows up again, or at all in mature members of the species, it doesn't seem like a characteristic crying out to be included in the racial abilities.
 

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