OGC Wiki (merged)

[GMSkarka]

Yes, Phil, it's obviously a massive conspiracy by WotC to put you out of business, because they're worried about your pdfs outcompeting their latest full-color, hardcover release.

Putting aside for a moment the utter slap-in-the-mouth-worthy obnoxiousness of your response....

Are you aware that, according to the latest sales figures (as reported in Comics & Games Retailer's September issue), RPG sales are have dropped from an average total weighted count of 119 units per store in October 2004 to 32 units per store in June 2005? That's a 73% drop over 8 months. 2004 as a whole wasn't too great to start with, either.

Ask anybody who works in the business....print RPG sales are plummeting.

However, conversely, PDF sales have been breaking records, month to month, for the past 3 years.

Now, I'm not saying that it's a big conspiracy. But the idea that PDFs, which are largely OGL products, are demonstrating stronger, more consistant sales than the print business in recent months is not a far-fetched rant....it's a fact. Somebody might have noticed that. Just sayin'.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Perhaps we should all vote for Wulf as the spokesperson for the anit-OGC-wiki league!

Which is kinda funny since my financial investment in the issue pretty much boils down to maybe $75 bucks a month.

I have a metastisized Ornery Bastard emotional investment, though.

 

[Rasyr]

btw. I thought Mike was working for Monte, he change employers?

Several months ago, IIRC (may be more than 6 months, but not positive)

 

[philreed]

Yes, Phil, it's obviously a massive conspiracy by WotC to put you out of business, because they're worried about your pdfs outcompeting their latest full-color, hardcover release.

I doubt they're worried about me.

Spycraft 2.0, Mutants & Masterminds, Iron Heroes -- those are affecting their sales. If I read correctly Iron Heroes is already being reprinted.

The dollars spent in the RPG industry are finite and the number continues to shrink. RPG-division employees at Wizards of the Coast that care about D&D as a pen and paper RPG (not to mention their jobs) know that the market is shrinking. And they know that every $40 spent on Spycraft 2.0 is $40 that wasn't spent on a D&D book.

Edit: That probably looked like I was denigrating Phil's books, which I'm not. My point was, WotC sells more books than everybody else put together. They're not worried about MnM2e, Iron Heroes, Spycraft2.0, the new WoD, or anything else. They can release 4e tomorrow and 5e next year and sell them in multitudes.

And from where I'm sitting, and the people I've talked with, those products are hurting Wizards.

Look at it this way. When D&D 4e comes out will it be because the game needs a new edition or because WotC needs to boost sales in that division? Before you answer, why was 3.5 released _two years_ before the originally planned schedule?

 

[philreed]

btw. I thought Mike was working for Monte, he change employers?

Months ago (June?) to WotC.

 

[Ondo]

Mike Mearls motivation doesn't seem that hard to figure out. Less than a month ago in a thread on Monte Cook's site complaining about the Iron Heroes magic system (here) Mearls admitted he was never happy with it and said:

I *think* that the magic system is open content. It would be very interesting to create a wiki with those rules and post various house rules, alternate ideas, and other material to it.

The Iron Heroes OGC declaration makes such a wiki difficult, and seems to be the reason he wants an OGC wiki.

 

[philreed]

Mike Mearls motivation doesn't seem that hard to figure out. Less than a month ago in a thread on Monte Cook's site complaining about the Iron Heroes magic system (here) Mearls admitted he was never happy with it and said:

The Iron Heroes OGC declaration makes such a wiki difficult, and seems to be the reason he wants an OGC wiki.

Which also leads to the theory that something bad/nasty happened when Mike left Malhavoc.

 

[mythusmage]

Yes. It's called "don't release any more OGC". Simple. Phil suggested it pages ago.

Whether people like it or not, that's the only change publishers would make. They'll do what they feel they need to do to continue publishing. Yet, I've seen people criticise Phil harshly for saying that. It all seems very one-way here - "you have to change the way you do things, but you can only change it in a way that benefits me, not you"; but if Phil chose to do that in reponse to such actions, I'd not blame him one whit.

It's not the only change publishers can make. For one, no more 100% OGC. Go bare bones with the mechanics. Just the stats plus instructions. Descriptions etc. are IP. You can use the mechanics in your own product or game, but to get the full value you need the product.

As to spell names etc. being IP, change the damn name. Yesh, I thought rolegamers were supposed to be creative. :/ Monte don't want you using Herman's Most Puissant Dweomer for Rousing Rage in Quivering Wimps rename it something like Anger the Mouse and make that OGC.

Morrus, Phil, you're selling yourself short. You don't get to where you've gotten withut being adaptable. You'll adjust. You may even do better than before. But for this to happen you need to stop thinking of how an OGC wiki could hurt you, but of how you could take advantage of it.

And Phil, as soon as my ATM card situation is straightened out (it's late) I'll be picking up a few Ronin Arts PDFs. If you like I can produce some "2nd editions" of same following the model I suggested above and send them to you for your feedback.

 

[jmucchiello]

You need not leave OGL behind to leave OGC behind. The OGL does not mandate any minimum quantity of new material be released as OGC. It doesn't even actually appear in the D20 STL, either. The only place where new OGC is mandated is in the D20 style guide that accompanies the D20 STL.

The D20 STL includes the D20 style guide as an extension of itself. They are the same document, just split into two files which can be updated separately. If you are using the logo, you are following the license and the guide. Access to the logo means you must have 5% of your content as OGC. What you don't have to do is include new content. That 5% can be previously released content.

And Phil, Shy's artwork does nothing for me. I recognize that it is good stuff, but it doesn't make me interested in the products it is on.

 

[Rasyr]

Which also leads to the theory that something bad/nasty happened when Mike left Malhavoc.

Well, I am glad that you said that first... ROFL

I had been thinking the same thing for 2 reasons. First was the blog post where Mearls derided the majority of the d20 industry, saying all but a small handful had no idea how to properly use the OGL (that got me to wondering), tie that with his post on rpg.net stating that the OGC declaration in IH was kinda what got him thinking about a wiki, and it does seem that he may not have left on "best of buddy" terms.

I had been wondering if others had thought the same thing...