OGL but not D20 clarification?

[RandomUsernamehmimo71]

While I know everybody else worked this out back in 2000-2002, I'm still uncclear on exactly how to license a product under The OGL, but not the D20 license. It would seem, by the product identity claim in 1(e) of the OGL 1.0 license, that " names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, " are defined as product identity, as well as "magical or supernatural abilities or effects".

If I understand that correctly, combined with the fact that legally, things designated as both OGL and product identity count as product identity and cannot be used under an OGL license.

When applied together it would seem that I cannot then legally publish the SRD as written under just the OGL (without agreeing to the D20 license), because it has spells and Supernatural abilities in it that WoTC have reserved.

I could, however, release a new game with similiar mechanics, such as Dechipher did with Coda, or was done (I believe) with Everquest?

Thank you for any assistance you can offer.

 

[Selganor]

Nothing that's contained in the current SRD is "reserved" by WotC.

Those spells which contain PI names (like "Otto's Irresistible Dance") are just renamed (in the example "Irresistible Dance").

So the current SRD CAN be published in full (like some people already did) this wasn't true for the 3.0 SRD (where some alternative names for the spells and the like would have to be found)

 

[RandomUsernamehmimo71]

That's the way I read it initially too, and that's what makes sense, but I'm not sure that that's what it actually says.

I mean "names and descriptions of characters, spells" seem to me, that Descriptions of the Spells are out. But your reading it as

(Names and descriptions of characters), (Spell)

Where I'm reading it as-

Names and Descriptions of (Characters, Spells, etc)...

So I think you're right, I WANT you to be right, And I've been operating under the assumption that you Are right.
I'm just not Sure your right.


(e) "Product Identity" means product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs;


I think the part I may have been missing is this- It goes on..

and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content.


Which would basically seem to say that Spells are covered, but that, even though generally Product Identiy trumps, in this particular case, we are defining that it does not, and that OGL content does not count as product identity.

 

[Flyspeck23]

I think the part I may have been missing is this- It goes on..

and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content.


Which would basically seem to say that Spells are covered, but that, even though generally Product Identiy trumps, in this particular case, we are defining that it does not, and that OGL content does not count as product identity.

Product Identity has to be designated, just like OGC. So you can designate a spell's name as PI, but you don't have to.

IANAL.

 

[Greatwyrm]

Product Identity and Open Gaming Content are mutually exclusive. One cannot be both (1).

Product Identity really only protects the specific names of stuff like spells, magic items, and monsters, and then only if you specify you want to protect them. Otherwise, you can take any OGL spell, change the name, and republish it as long as you properly credit the source in the OGL licesnse section in your book.

I think the point where you may be getting confused is the "names of" part. If you look at how the semi-colons and commas separate different stuff in that section, it should be interpreted: names and descriptions of characters, names and descriptions of spells, names and descriptions of enchantments, names and descriptions of personalities, names and descriptions of teams, names and descriptions of personas, names and descriptions of likenesses and names and descriptions of special abilities

Also keep in mind, that's names and descriptions not the actual game rules of those items. I could make a spell that's called Greatwyrm's Goulash Grenade and describe it as "This spell creates a ball of goulash that is hurled at an opponent." All that can be PI. However, the actual rules of the spell (level, save, range, damage, SR, spell school) all have to be OGC.

Everything in the SRD can be republished as is. If you want to reprint the text of the SRD verbatim and try to sell it, you're welcome to do so.


(1) I do remember seeing one book where the author clalimed the names of everything as PI, but then granted unrestricted license to use the PI names in other OGL products. You can do stuff like that with your own PI, but not with any actual OGC.

 

[jmucchiello]

I hope the other posts have solved your questions about the OGL. But your question involves the D20 license as well:

When applied together it would seem that I cannot then legally publish the SRD as written under just the OGL (without agreeing to the D20 license), because it has spells and Supernatural abilities in it that WoTC have reserved.

Nothing in the D20 license grants permission to use any of WotC's PI. It only allows you to use the D20 Logo on your products and to use the Dungeons and Dragons trademark (and certain other WotC trademarks) in limited set of circumstances.

Your statement above, combined with your interpretation of the OGL, implied that you thought the D20 license granted permission to use WotC PI. It does not.

 

[RandomUsernamehmimo71]

Greatwyrm, that's for the assistance. I think what I'm getting hung up on is that "names and descriptions" of spells, includes the name that they gave it in the SRD, even if it doesn't include any character names.
For instance, "Fireball" is /a/ name of a spell that WoTC gave it.
So under a strict interpretation, I could see it counting as PI, as they define PI to be the above.

Jmucchiello, I understand D20 doesn't let you use PI. That's the whole problem.
I'm trying to make sure I use what's fair exclusively under OGL. I'm not interested in agreeing to their D20 license. (And I'm only somewhat sure on the OGL part. Copyright law may be MORE permissive for some uses, just legally less safe)

Everything in the SRD can be republished as is. If you want to reprint the text of the SRD verbatim and try to sell it, you're welcome to do so.

WoTC says this in their FAQs, I'm just trying to see where the license backs that up, exactly. If they define Names and Descriptions in the SRD as PI, then the SRD can't be published without renaming things. If they aren't claiming names of spells that are in the SRD are PI, then why are they specifically saying that "Names and Descriptions" count?

Do you see where my problem comes from?

I think the only escape clause is the italicizes line in my last post, where they say that content that is otherwise OGL licensed in the SRD is not PI, unlike the rest of the case, where PI trumps OGL.

 

[Len]

Legal.rtf, 4th & 5th paragraphs from the top:

The following items are designated Product Identity, as defined in Section 1(e) of the Open Game License Version 1.0a, and are subject to the conditions set forth in Section 7 of the OGL, and are not Open Content: [a bunch of stuff].

All of the rest of the SRD is Open Game Content as described in Section 1(d) of the License.

The bunch of stuff that isn't OGC doesn't appear anywhere in the SRD (as far as I can see) so that leaves everything.

 

[RandomUsernamehmimo71]

Well, that's the crux of it

Part of the [bunch of stuff] is ( "names and descriptions" of spells ), and Supernatural abilities, Which seems like it DOES cover stuff from the SRD

 

[Cergorach]

proper names (including those used in the names of spells or items),

proper name:
1. The title by which any person or thing is known or designated; a distinctive specific appellation, whether of an individual or a class.
2. A descriptive or qualifying appellation given to a person or thing, on account of a character or acts.
3. Reputed character; reputation, good or bad; estimation; fame; especially, illustrious character or fame; honorable estimation; distinction.
4. Those of a certain name; a race; a family.
5. A person, an individual.

Does that clarify things?