OGL Cloning 4e?

[jmucchiello]

No, your argument doesn't fly. Control of what? This isn't about being allowed to make copies of the 4E PHB you bought for your own personal use. This is about publishing 4E-compatible material, for profit, while avoiding the terms of the GSL which WotC specifically designed for use with their 4E IP.

Copyright law allows it. Steve Jackson Games released many D&D articles in its online Pyramid magazine over the last few years. None of them have OGLs. SJG could not financially stand up to WotC in a court of law and yet WotC did nothing. They rely on standard copyright law for protection.

I'm not saying this makes the idea safe. But it is not immoral to make products compatible with another company's products without that company's permission. Ever buy 3rd party ink for your printer? How about coffee filters for your coffee machine? Do you buy real Bayer(tm) Aspirin or the store brand?

The question here is do you just jump out of the safe harbor entirely, or do you cobble together a set of OGC sources for all 4E innovations and stay in the harbor? As I said it's an excellent thought exercise.

 

[Fifth Element]

I'm not saying this makes the idea safe. But it is not immoral to make products compatible with another company's products without that company's permission.

Sorry, I was not trying to imply any such thing. I was simply trying to point out how off-base (IMO) Moon-Lancer's examples were to this situation.

 

[arscott]

I think 4esque wouldn't sell because the buying public would go for 4e over 4esque. (The Coke effect: it's the real thing!)

I think anyone who produced it would be more motivated by trying to free publishers from the constraints of the GSL than by making direct profit now.

A fool's errand I think.

It's entirely possible that you might comb through enough OGL sources to create a game that plays almost exactly like 4e. But the terminology used will be entirely different at best. Products released under such a system will be confusing and difficult to use with the actual 4e rules.

And poor and confusing products are going to sink a publisher a lot faster than the harsh legalese in the GSL ever would.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Sorry, I was not trying to imply any such thing. I was simply trying to point out how off-base (IMO) Moon-Lancer's examples were to this situation.

and I said, they are not 1:1 examples, but it feels to me that you read them and maybe jumped the gun? Its ok, i do that all the time.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

you buy real Bayer(tm) Aspirin or the store brand?

drugs have a short patent life. Thats why they are so freaking expensive!!!

 

[Fifth Element]

and I said, they are not 1:1 examples, but it feels to me that you read them and maybe jumped the gun? Its ok, i do that all the time.

No, I understand your argument. But people can change the core rules all they want (for their own games), they just need to be careful if they publish those changes.

I'm trying to point out the examples you gave are far less than 1:1.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I'm trying to point out the examples you gave are far less than 1:1.

I guess thats fair *shug*

 

[lutecius]

At least if someone does make a ogl 4e, it i will be because people want the freedom to tinker and be recognized for it. Its hard to tinker when you cant change the core aspects of the game. I realize my argument is not entirely legitimate, as people can make all the house rules they want, so I imagine 4e would exist if people want to change the core mechanics of 4e and publish a world that goes along with those mechanics, and not have to deal with godplate silliness. For people who like most of 4e, but really despise other parts, and want to change those parts.

Yes. The GSL ensures that no one tries to "fix" 4e. House rules are not as satifying as 3pp because
1- solid rules demand more effort, time and playtesting than most gamers are willing to put in.
2- they make it more difficult to recruit players. "We're playing the Truenight Ironfinder variant" sounds better than "I made all those drastic changes to the core rules myself, but trust me they're great. wanna come over?"

As for the 4e clone, that would be a ballsy move and I doubt it would pay off, but it looks like the only thing that could save 4e for me at this point. Or maybe an early Unearthed Arcana, or some 4.5e that would be more to my liking... Well, I'm not holding my breath.

I don't think these products can use the same layout or presentation as those are trade dress elements and protected as graphics/ artwork that WOTC owns.

who would want to do that?

Anyrate, I be curious what a lawyer up on their gaming industry know-how would say about this.

Same here. Or better, what a wotc staffer would say.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I've obviously missed something. Why wouldn't an OGL-based game that incorporated some of the 4e refinements sell?

Didn't The Book of Experimental Might, which has a fair bit of parallel evolution, do pretty well?

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I don't think these products can use the same layout or presentation as those are trade dress elements and protected as graphics/ artwork that WOTC owns.

This is not my quote, but yeah this is a given.