[OGL Questions] Is Dungeons and Dragons a game?

[WhimsyTheFae]

Well maybe I should point out that maybe 20% of the whole game design would cover all D&D related mechanics (back to 1974).

I have added and changed alot of things but I prefer to keep the mechanics as gereric as possible.

This does take the flavor most expect in RPG's but I think thats what the players are for.

Your unwillingness to derail your thread with mechanics and such is hurting your position. You either need to start a new thread for mechanics discussion or post those things in here, otherwise you will be continually telling us we don't understand.

Based on what we've read, the vast majority of those who have posted here believe that you may be on shaky ground. You have done nothing to prove your point except state that we don't understand what you're getting at. Well, show us what you are trying to do so that we may have a better understanding.

 

[Chaos Disciple]

I guess what I'm really missing after reading all 3+ pages of this trainwreck is specifically why you're not going to use the OGL. Near as I can see, you have listed a few reasons...

(1)

As has been expressed elsewhere in this thread, your understanding of copyright law may be flawed. I'm not going to come out and say you're wrong - but you may not be as right as you think you are.

(2)

To turn it around, why not use it if it might save you legal problems. Even if you're right, can you afford the court costs you'll incur in proving you're right? It's insurance, pure and simple.

(3)

I don't really see why this is surprising at all. The OGL is in WotC/Hasbro's ultimate interests. WotC may want to help out gamers - but they also must act in their own interests as part of a publicly-traded company.

(4)

It's the other way around. Nobody will come to your game and see it as a commercial for WotC. However, if you label that it's OGL-compatible, you can increase your audience. This is an excuse, nothing else.

Seriously, though - WHY are you so strongly against using the OGL for a product that's clearly exactly what the OGL was meant for? What's your purpose?

I'm guessing it's sheer obstinacy and maybe ignorance. Maybe both. Maybe there's a good portion of iconoclasm in there too. None of these are positive qualities for anyone who's self-publishing (even for free) a document that may or may not be infringing. Talk with a copyright lawyer if you want to try something like this - maybe you'll listen to them more than you will to the folks in this thread.

-O

Im not agianst using the OGL but from what I read it seems to require an attempt at copyright to even use it. I am not trying to copyright my game.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Im not agianst using the OGL but from what I read it seems to require an attempt at copyright to even use it. I am not trying to copyright my game.

Writing anything down and releasing it into the world creates a copyright automatically.

 

[Ourph]

Im not agianst using the OGL but from what I read it seems to require an attempt at copyright to even use it. I am not trying to copyright my game.

The OGL does not require you to assert copyright over anything you write. It does insist that you refrain from using other people's intellectual property without permission by imposing the "right to contribute" clause. I'm assuming this is what you are construing as "requir[ing] an attempt at copyright to even use it". If what you are creating truly does fall within the public domain then you have a "right to contribute" because everyone "owns" material that is in the public domain. Therefore, you meet the requirements for that clause of the license.

 

[Tewligan]

I would like to point out agian this is an collection of systems which can not be subject to copyrights.

You might not be very familar with game design but I dont have any problem determining systems and methods from names and text.

I am also unsure if this infornation even qualifies for the OGL

I seriously doubt I could or would sue WotC because like I told scott its intended for public use so they wont have to worry

Okay, seriously. At least one lawyer has chimed in on this. Ryan Dancey has clarified this for you. WotC employees have advised you on this. I think everyone reading this thread knows the difference between names and systems. You're trying to make a system, by your own admission, to enhance and extend the D&D system. You're building off of their rules - you must be using their terminology at some point if it's intended to enhance the existing system. That's legal, but YOU HAVE TO USE THE OGL. It doesn't matter if you intend to make a profit or not - if you're distributing it to the public, that's what you have to do. Why do you keep arguing this? The people who maybe literally know more about these rules than ayone else are telling you what's necessary, and you just keep digging in your heels and sticking by what you think should be true, whether it is or not. There have been a LOT of publishers putting out D&D compatible stuff, and they use the OGL, and I imagine they are familiar with game design. Do you think they just don't know any better? They're doing it to cover their asses, and you would be well-advised to do the same.

 

[Chaos Disciple]

Your unwillingness to derail your thread with mechanics and such is hurting your position. You either need to start a new thread for mechanics discussion or post those things in here, otherwise you will be continually telling us we don't understand.

Based on what we've read, the vast majority of those who have posted here believe that you may be on shaky ground. You have done nothing to prove your point except state that we don't understand what you're getting at. Well, show us what you are trying to do so that we may have a better understanding.

I agree with the thread split but my game designs are not up for disscusion except as examples systems not subject to copyrights.
But I can understand that people are curious about them

I thought my link to the US copyright website was a good bit of info supporting me

 

[timbannock]

Nevermind, [edit] because he shot down the idea of posting even a snippet of his non-copyright-able rules which aren't protected in any way that he'd be giving out for free when he was actually done with.

In short, he can't even give us a solid example of what kind of language/text/rules/whatever would show up in this work that would "greatly improve" the D&D experience.

How can something that's not using the same language be so easily compatible that it could "greatly improve" the D&D experience?

Can't you just post something in the House Rules forum so we are not all sitting here saying the same thing over and over again?

Why do you say that this thread is "so informative" and you have "a much clearer view" of copyright laws and things that pertain to the OGL when not a single post (other than your own) has backed up what you are saying?

This is either (a) so utterly confusing to everyone that you need to clean up your language so we understand you, (b) the work of one of the greatest trolls of all time, or (c) the thread most likely to cause various ENWorlders' heads to explode.

Chaos Disciple...I really hope for you it's (a), but I think it'd be amusing if it were (b). Option (c) is a little too unlikely for my tastes (and I'd hate it if my fellow ENWorlders lost their lives to this).

 

[Obryn]

Im not agianst using the OGL but from what I read it seems to require an attempt at copyright to even use it. I am not trying to copyright my game.

You're completely 100% wrong. It has nothing to do with your copyright on your works.

The OGL's purpose is to legally protect you while you use WotC/Hasbro's purported intellectual property. (Whether or not it really is or is not is irrelevant here. If they believe it to be their intellectual property, they have sufficient reason to begin legal proceedings.)

-O

 

[Anti-Sean]

This thread is not intended to promote my game designs but I can see how it is relivant to determine how it can avoid conflicting with copyrght infringment

First its a short document (50-100 pages) and absolutly 100% crunchy game mechanics (systems and methods only ofcourse)

The designs encompass and expands on the D&D game mechanics

These are just a few things the game does and I see no way to copyright them


-Mechanics for ability scores going over 100

-A standard character level system which is balanced and compatible with D&D but goes up to 300+ and can reflect the power simple creatures upto to extremly powerful beings like Gods with in the same game mechanics

-Compatible size catagories that is expanded to include microscopic to planet sized creatures and larger

-Balanced Combat System for Magic Psionics (Force powers) and Conventional fighting, along with advanced technology

-Also It has expanded the D&D game mechanics to be useful in any fantasy setting even those derived from comics movies or novels
So Playing Superheros or Futuristic Tech like transformers is covered

This sounds exacly liek what I've been wading for 2 hlep improv my gaems. Pleas harry up and publich it, my player will be exstadic!

 

[Chaos Disciple]

The OGL does not require you to assert copyright over anything you write. It does insist that you refrain from using other people's intellectual property without permission by imposing the "right to contribute" clause. I'm assuming this is what you are construing as "requir[ing] an attempt at copyright to even use it". If what you are creating truly does fall within the public domain then you have a "right to contribute" because everyone "owns" material that is in the public domain. Therefore, you meet the requirements for that clause of the license.

Really no copyright required? Doesnt look that way to me.

"(b)"Derivative Material" means copyrighted material"

Qouted from the OGL

"1. Definitions: (a)"Contributors" means the copyright and/or trademark owners who have contributed Open Game Content; (b)"Derivative Material" means copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted; (c) "Distribute" means to reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute; (d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity. (e) "Product Identity" means product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content; (f) "Trademark" means the logos, names, mark, sign, motto, designs that are used by a Contributor to identify itself or its products or the associated products contributed to the Open Game License by the Contributor (g) "Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material of Open Game Content. (h) "You" or "Your" means the licensee in terms of this agreement." "