OGL? SUccess or failure?

[Belen]

IME, the OGL has been an unparalleled success. Before 3e, I played 2e. That is all I played and I never considered another game. I hated the fact that I would have to learn an entire new set of rules to play something other than D&D.

These days, I run modern and future games. I can demo Blue Rose or Mutants and Masterminds and I am exposed to a whole range of gaming that I never would have encountered otherwise.

The OGL has turned a casual gamer into a hard core gamer who routinely goes to a website to get more information on gaming. Not to mention that I can easily recommend other games to people because I know the rules. I still to not recommend WW etc, but there are lot of games out there now that share a common aspect making it much easier to play what you want and find players for it.

I do not think Wizards will abandon the OGL or the d20 License. It has sold too many books for them.

Dave

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

A lot of food for thought there, Rasyr.

I'd agree with parts of what you said. I think it has both failed and succeeded. d20 has definitely become a powerhouse in the market. I remember in the 2e days, White Wolf seemed to really be giving TSR a run for their money for the position of king of the hill.

At the same time, competing sub-systems have sprouted. I can play Lone Wolf, Conan, Castles & Crusades, Blue Rose, and a host of others without ever having to touch a WotC book. WotC lost me to C&C, and I'm sure I'm not the only one and C&C isn't the only system that's become a competitor within the OGL. By themselves, they're probably not huge slices of the pie, but added together, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a sizeable amount.

But after a time of huge glut, I think we're finally seeing the rise of non-d20 systems again. Warhammer 2e, Lejendary Adventures, HARP, etc. I applaud the return of diversity to the market.

As for the internet crackdown of the mid-90s, that definitely comes from a misunderstanding of the ways which the internet is changing intellectual property; I would argue that what we are seeing with the record-industry vs. file-sharing is just a continuation of that. As a musician, I'm certainly against en-masse file-sharing, but can see that corporate America is going about things in entirely the wrong way.

 

[Bloodstone Press]

I can only speak from my own experience, as I don't follow industry trends nearly as much as I should.

As a small press d20 publisher I frequently buy d20 products from my competitors. Also, since I can research my customer names, I know that several of my own customers are other d20 publishers themselves (including some pretty big names in the industry) . Its funny how much money is just trading hands between publishers.

I also trade products with other publishers.

I also send them comp copies when I re-use their OGC, which I am doing more and more as time goes by (why re-invent the wheel? I have more important things to do)

I didn't find the change to 3.5 to be troublesome. Conversely, I found it to be a boon.

Additionally, the flood of product that first came out also meant that there were many similar products in development at the same time. How many dragon books came out in a short span of time? 5? In any case, this paralell development of similar products precluded the use of OGC from another company as that other company was busy developing their own OGC for the same thing.

That's just a hazard of the business. Given time, the cream will rise to the top.

While it was expected that a number of companies would form or move to producing OGL content to support D&D, the actual numbers were at least an order of magnitude higher than expected. This had the effect of effectively flooding the market with product, a good portion of it of questionable quality (note: I am referring to 3.0 product mainly, not 3.5). In this instance I would say that it was too successful. It got to the point that distributors were refusing to deal with any more new companies, only with those who had established themselves early on

Again, I think that is the natural ebb and flow of business. A rush then a pull-back. Perfectly normal. Yeah, it was a lot bigger of a rush than they expected, so the pull back seems more severe too, but its not a death knell.

This is because as they move away, they are beginning to split the customer base. No longer is it just D&D and lots of supplements. Now you have D&D, C&C, Arcane Evolved, Iron Heroes, Mutants & Masterminds, True20, Spycraft, Grim Tales, and more. All vying for the same customers.

Yeah, but as others have pointed out, those systems are still pretty similar. And, that's what WOTC wanted anyway. I know I've seen Monte say that he was disappointed that there wasn't more experimentation with the core system (as of about 2 years ago). I think that has changed somewhat, and its a good thing.

Also remember that gamers usually change campaigns every 6 months or so. Just because those systems you mention are competing, doesn't mean that customers are making Either/Or decisions. They may buy Grimm Tales today, play for 6 months, then buy Spycraft and play for another 6 months. Although the systems are different, they are similar enough that players can do that without learning a whole new system, which was one of the goals of the OGL.

Lastly, I agree with you that the shape of 4e will have a significant impact on the industry, DnD and the OGL, but I also think that the OGL and derived games will still be around even if 4e is closed content.

 

[Henry]

...This has not happened. There continues to be what amounts to a small stream of new games coming out every year. It may have hiccupped a little bit at first, but the stream continues (Meddling Kids, WHFRP2, Storyteller, Burning Wheel, HARP, etc...) I do not really see a decrease in the number of game systems. In this instance, I would say that it was unsuccessful.

I have to disagree with this point. I went through pen-paper.net's database and hunt-and-pecked for a list of start dates for various RPG's. (I will never do this again! pen-paper.net really needs some expanded search tools! )

An incomplete list of what I found (because I got tired of looking):

1989
Shadowrun
Ars Magica
Worlds Beyond

1990
Torg
Rifts

1991
Aliens
Amber Diceless
Vampire The Masquerade

1992
Lost Souls
Over the Edge
Trauma
Werewolf the Apocalypse
Primal Order

1993
Wooden Suits Iron Men
WWF Adventure Game
Shatterzone

1994
Aria
Pirates of Dark Water
Psychosis: Ship of Fools
Wraith the Oblivion

1995
Changeling the Dreaming
World of Species (masterbook)
Project A-ko

1996
Feng Shui
Witchcraft
Noir

1997
Armageddon
Principia Malefex
Space ninja cybercrisis XDO
Zero
Zombi
Trinity

1998
Spookshow
Star Trek NextGen
W.H.A.T.?

1999
7th Sea
Aetherco Continuum
All Flesh must be eaten
Apocrypha
Nobilis
Shriek: Game of Teen Horror
Six Gun
Star Trek TOS


From 1989 to 1999 there were some 43 that I found (and very likely far more than that); these were not supplements, I'm just talking about the Core Books for new game lines. 1999 seems a "Boom" year, with 8 titles by itself; I'm suspecting that the buzz about WotC delivering a new D&D probably got similar buzz generating for new games, because if the "Skaff Effect" is to be believed (all game sales ultimately benefit the network leader), game companies were ALREADY benefitting from an return of some gamers after AD&D was supported again by WotC after the debacle of 1996-1997 (though gamers LEAVING WotC in 1996-1997 would have had an influence as well, and you possibly had a bunch of companies noting this after the "demographic bulge" and getting games to market after the fact). I didn't include 2000 because there's a period of overlap; some games were specifically OGL released then, and some were simply late to market from 1999, so I left out 2000 due to lack of specific info. I could have easily put in things like Orkworld, because I KNOW these weren't OGL, but didn't want to get into the fine-toothed comb.

Each one of these (that I can tell) are totally different game systems; very few or no related mechanics. After 2000, the number of systems coming out with totally unrelated mechanics is far fewer. Of the ones that Rasyr mentioned off the cuff (I concede I haven't gone and done the same thing with 2001-2005) most listed are based on former existing products (Shadowrun, HARP, Storyteller, Warhammer).

Prior to 2000, you couldn't swing a dead orc without hitting someone's small press product that was inventing the wheel before it could roll. Now, 80 to 90% of brand-new games are OGL based. The ones that aren't are revised editions of prior work. There may be exceptions (Burning Wheel), but they're not the rule.

So did it reduce the number of games? No. Did it reduce the number of completely incompatible mechanics? Yes. As Ryan Dancey pointed out (and I'm note here to debate it, I'm here to point it out) even games that are not derived from the OGL these days, are at least influenced by it; in order not to, they'd have to be designed by a robot.

 

[Odhanan]

One important thing is the OGL gave a way for many designers/publishers out there to start in the business. Later on, if they are successful, it is a "normal" step to want to get your independance and start to produce non-d20 materials. And there is nothing wrong with that. The OGL succeeds in bringing new blood to the pool of designers out there, and it helps the hobby tremendously as a result, thus bringing new customers of RPGs in the years to come by snowball effect.

(edit - it is also good for the market and WotC because it creates good competition in a liberal micro-market. Instead of a flurry of little companies buzzing around with different game systems, you have the buzz using WotC's system. When the select few evolve and grow to publish non-d20 stuff, these are competitors who will spread the market rather than divide it)

 

[Turjan]

Prior to 2000, you couldn't swing a dead orc without hitting someone's small press product that was inventing the wheel before it could roll. Now, 80 to 90% of brand-new games are OGL based. The ones that aren't are revised editions of prior work. There may be exceptions (Burning Wheel), but they're not the rule.

Although I agree with the general gist of your post, I cannot really see the basis for these 80 to 90% OGL-based games that you have given. I'd say that the majority of new games is still not based on the OGL. Or do you mean sales numbers? Or do you count the number of supplements released in these figures? Or just settings? The trend at the moment is definitely away from OGL games, as far as I can see it. I expect that to become even more pronounced the longer the lifetime of 3.5e gets.

 

[tonym]

... the ultimate success or failure of the OGL rests in what happens when WotC releases 4E.

Another "when WotC releases 4E" post by Rasyr. Whee.

I make the intuitive leap from A to E and declare that Rasyr's OGL-shunning RPG would have sold better in a universe without the OGL.

I love the OGL!! Total Success!!


Tony M

 

[Henry]

Although I agree with the general gist of your post, I cannot really see the basis for these 80 to 90% OGL-based games that you have given. I'd say that the majority of new games is still not based on the OGL. Or do you mean sales numbers? Or do you count the number of supplements released in these figures? Or just settings? The trend at the moment is definitely away from OGL games, as far as I can see it. I expect that to become even more pronounced the longer the lifetime of 3.5e gets.

You're probably right; I'd be better off by saying 50% to 60%, after looking at more of the post-2000 stuff from pen-paper.net. Yes, I'm also counting supplements & settings, because there is FAR more supplemental business than there was prior to 2000. As for major releases, I'm looking at:
d20
---------------------
Arcana Unearthed
Iron Heroes
Mutants and Masterminds
Conan
Grim Tales
Spycraft
Adventure!
Castles & Crusades
Northern Crown
Everquest
Warcraft
Judge Dredd
Lone Wolf
Stargate
Babylon 5
Silver age Sentinels (unsure, because I can only find info on a d20 version)
Sidewinder
Solid!


Non-d20
---------------
Exalted
Buffy/Angel/Unisystem
Shadowrun 4E
Savage Worlds
Sorceror
Tri-stat
Riddle of Steel
Storyteller System core book

The waters are muddied by the advent of PDF publishing and Print-on-demand publishing; those who couldn't afford to get into the business thanks to new technology now can, quite easily. But for every Key 20 or Clockworks, there is a Ronin Arts or Expeditious Retreat or Blue Devil Games in the making, so I haven't mentioned them much).

Most of the new non-d20 releases are based on previous works, meaning the number of "new systems" in circulation are decreasing. (Shadowrun, Exalted, Storyteller, Savage Worlds are all what I'm thinking of here). Even among non-d20, it's showing its effect, in my opinion, just on the pressure for a community to build around these large enough to sustain their companies.

 

[Turjan]

Hmm... I haven't done any research, but a look at my shelf shows (other than those already mentioned by you):

Talislanta 4th ed. (2000)
Dying Earth RPG (2001)
HARP (2003)
HeroQuest - Roleplaying in Glorantha (2003)
Paranoia XP (2004)
Warhammer FRP2 (2005)

Except Paranoia XP, none of those will have seen large sales numbers, I suspect.

Then GURPS and Ars Magica saw new editions. Let's see how the new 'Secrets of Zir'an' (2005) will do. I won't count niche games like 'The Shadow of Yesterday' or 'Elfs'. Games like FFG's 'Fireborn' might fall in the same category as 'Burning Wheels'. i.e., they never really took off. Anyway, your 50 to 60% might be correct if we just count successful releases.

 

[Ranger REG]

One important thing is the OGL gave a way for many designers/publishers out there to start in the business. Later on, if they are successful, it is a "normal" step to want to get your independance and start to produce non-d20 materials. And there is nothing wrong with that. The OGL succeeds in bringing new blood to the pool of designers out there, and it helps the hobby tremendously as a result, thus bringing new customers of RPGs in the years to come by snowball effect.

I agree. The OGL was not meant to be a get-rich-quick scheme but an avenue of opportunity like the internet and the dot-com explosion. The internet is not going to make your business a success, that depends on how your run your business. But I guess some critics think this is what the OGL is, some get-rich-quick opportunity.

To me, it was the opposite of lawyer-happy TSR was doing when they try to shut down companies that tried to ride on their coattail like Mayfair Game's Role Aids line (wish I could find them now) that includes weapons, races, etc. Now we have at least 3 companies putting out Role Aids clones.