OGL What is to happen?

[DM-Rocco]

[Forgive me if some of this is obvious, but it seems worth noting]

The OGL is a license that allows anyone to publish material based on the SRD published by Wizards, for free and without charge or need of permission. There is now an OGL and SRD for 3.5e (and 3.0e), so anyone can use it (and many do). There will be an OGL and SRD released for 4e, so people could publish material compatible with and building on it. This was stated by WotC (in the thread linked to above).

The d20STL (d20 System Trademark License) allows you to publish a work that includes the words "Requires the use of Dungeons & Dragons" on the cover (you normally can't use the words "Dungeons & Dragons", as they're a trademark, even with the OGL), as well as a few other benefits. Like the OGL, anyone can use it for free and without needing to ask for permission, but it includes lots of restrictions on what you can and can't publish. (For example, you may not publish rules on how to make characters, you can't have art showing nipples, and so on.) This license can only be used for 3.5e (or 3.0e) materials at the moment.

Whether a license similar to the d20STL will be released for 4e is a mystery. My divinations indicate that instead of a free-for-all lincense like the d20STL, Wizards will invite key publishers, offering them the license. Others won't be able to claim compatibility with the Dungeons & Dragons game (even though they would be compatible).

Neither the OGL nor the d20STL allows you to publish works based on Wizard's other intellectual property, like say the Forgotten Realms. However, Wizards will grant anyone the right to post such work on Gleemax. Once posted, Wizards will have the right to use it in any way they choose, however - you get to post about their worlds and content, they get to use it as they wish. Note that right now, barring a word from Wizards to the contrary, even posting a story-hour of your adventures in the Forgotten Realms is, technically, illegal. Gleemax will provide you with a legal channel to publish such works.

That is a well thought out argument. As I stated, I didn't see anything in the thread posted above stating the mentioned OGL, but I didn't check it all out.

There will be an OGL and SRD released for 4e, so people could publish material compatible with and building on it. This was stated by WotC (in the thread linked to above).yes I see this!!!

but that doesn't really say it will be free to use as the current one is. It doesn't address the d20 either. It is a start though.

 

[Fifth Element]

I hope so. The d and d product i watered down by allowing and bloke to publish "official" product. A fee and regulations will prevent a lot of bad stuff (not all). Worked for Nintendo in the BG market and is now a staple of the inudstry.

As discussed in the thread linked to above, a fee-base license will do little or nothing to improve the average quality of 3rd-party products.

Some high-quality stuff from very small publishers (say, Dreamscarred Press) could disappear, and there has always been garbage put out by companies who could easily afford the fee.

WotC has repeatedly stated they don't want to get into regulating 3rd-party publications, simply due to the time and effort that would be required. It would not be remotely worth the money that it would cost.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

There will be an OGL and new SRD for 4e. There will be no fee associated with the OGL and SRD.

We are still discussing if there will be a d20 System Trademark License and how this will work. A fee based d20 STL is unlikely at this point based on both our internal discussions and based on feedback from other publishers at GenCon.

 

[Scribble]

I think their best bet would be a "proving grounds" approach.

Once a company has put out enough material of sufficient quality they are allowed to use the d20 logo. (Thus indicating that the company at least seems to meet WOTC's idea of quality...)

 

[Bacris]

I think their best bet would be a "proving grounds" approach.

Once a company has put out enough material of sufficient quality they are allowed to use the d20 logo. (Thus indicating that the company at least seems to meet WOTC's idea of quality...)

The problem again with this is oversight costs.

Who decides who makes the cut? There's a LOT of 3rd party publishers out there - even one Full-Time Employee (FTE) to figure out who should and shouldn't get the license is a bit cost-prohibitive.

You'd need some form of standards & criteria, measurable goals, and the like.

I definitely don't envy Scott and the WotC team on figuring out the future of the d20 STL. I haven't seen any "good" solution, only different levels of "bad".

 

[Scribble]

The problem again with this is oversight costs.

Who decides who makes the cut? There's a LOT of 3rd party publishers out there - even one Full-Time Employee (FTE) to figure out who should and shouldn't get the license is a bit cost-prohibitive.

You'd need some form of standards & criteria, measurable goals, and the like.

I definitely don't envy Scott and the WotC team on figuring out the future of the d20 STL. I haven't seen any "good" solution, only different levels of "bad".

Couple different methods.

Rely on perhaps a test...

But I think perhaps a fan review method. Most of us know the companies that do well design wise, and those that don't.

d20 itself was about an "open source" game design method... so once again tap the open source, and allow the users to decide.

 

[DM-Rocco]

There will be an OGL and new SRD for 4e. There will be no fee associated with the OGL and SRD.

We are still discussing if there will be a d20 System Trademark License and how this will work. A fee based d20 STL is unlikely at this point based on both our internal discussions and based on feedback from other publishers at GenCon.

Okay, I guess I can take the word of the D&D brand manager. I was just confused by the way what I read was worded.

I think their best bet would be a "proving grounds" approach.

Once a company has put out enough material of sufficient quality they are allowed to use the d20 logo. (Thus indicating that the company at least seems to meet WOTC's idea of quality...)

So, you want to give a company the right to use the d20 logo after they prove themselves but in order to prove themselves they have to write for d20 without the logo. Not sure how that would work

 

[Scribble]

Okay, I guess I can take the word of the D&D brand manager. I was just confused by the way what I read was worded.


So, you want to give a company the right to use the d20 logo after they prove themselves but in order to prove themselves they have to write for d20 without the logo. Not sure how that would work

d20 logo is separate from the OGL license...

Statements like "Compatible with The Worlds Best Selling RPG" would be very different from the d20 logo.

You take your chances using anything that simply uses the rules. if you see the d20 logo, you know the company has at least earned its way there...

 

[GMSkarka]

But I think perhaps a fan review method.

No business run as anything more than a hobby would place their entire operational model in the hands of a fan review.

To put it bluntly: I do this for a living. It puts food on my family's table, and (in another year's time) will be paying for my daughter's college education. I'm not about to put that into the hands of a fan-run review process. There's just way too much at stake to rely on people with no stake in the end result.


For what it's worth, what I suggested at the OGL meeting at GenCon was that WOTC take the radical approach of doing nothing -- keeping the OGL/d20 STL set-up exactly as it is, and assume that the market will self-correct.

The huge flood of post-3e glut is not about to repeat itself for a few reasons: a lack of PokeCash filling the coffers of distributors and retailers (which was the case in 99/2000), generally far more conservative ordering practices over the past 7 years, and the fact that retailers, distributors and publishers all can remember what happened the last time. We're not stupid, after all.

 

[Scribble]

No business run as anything more than a hobby would place their entire operational model in the hands of a fan review.

To put it bluntly: I do this for a living. It puts food on my family's table, and (in another year's time) will be paying for my daughter's college education. I'm not about to put that into the hands of a fan-run review process. There's just way too much at stake to rely on people with no stake in the end result.

How is that not the case already? Aren't you really putting that in our hands to begin with? If you write stuff that sucks, we won't buy it.

For what it's worth, what I suggested at the OGL meeting at GenCon was that WOTC take the radical approach of doing nothing -- keeping the OGL/d20 STL set-up exactly as it is, and assume that the market will self-correct.

The huge flood of post-3e glut is not about to repeat itself for a few reasons: a lack of PokeCash filling the coffers of distributors and retailers (which was the case in 99/2000), generally far more conservative ordering practices over the past 7 years, and the fact that retailers, distributors and publishers all can remember what happened the last time. We're not stupid, after all.

You may be right, but I also think part of what happened was that we gamers realized that just because something was d20 didn't mean it was worth buying... after the novelty wore off, and people realized a lot of what was out there was actually crap, they started being more selective.

Which is the same, in my eyes, as the fans weeding out who should be d20, and who should just be "compatible with the worlds best selling rpg..."