Oh noes .. more Daggermaster cheese? (Warlock)

[Danceofmasks]

Pit fighter has a weapon attack that deals non-[W] damage on the secondary.

With more material getting added all the time, we are going to get more of these weird cases.

 

[Keenath]

And if you think that is the most powerful prestige class a warlock can multiclass into you really need to take a closer look at the Blood Mage. And that class isn't dependant on a particular magic item.

It's not an awful choice, but also not super awesome. The Bolstering Blood ability only works with Wizard powers and paragon path powers, and both of the attack powers the path gives you depend on Int, which is secondary at best for a warlock.

 

[Andor]

Just for fun I wonder what the damage gain is for a Warlock using Daggermaster.

Let's say level 20 judged on the optimal Encounter power.

For a Warlock that's 'Warlock's Bargain.' 3d10 + con mod + 1/2 level (selected because it's the largest dice pool on any available Warlock Power at lvl 20.)

Average damage is 16.5(avg 3d10) + 6 (con) + 10 (1/2 lvl) + 4 (Implement) + 7 (curse avg 2d6) or 43 damage.

On a crit that becomes 30(max 3d10) + 6 (con)+ 10 (1/2 lvl)+ 4 (Implement) + 12 (curse max 2d6) + 14 (avg 4d6 from crit with +4 Pact blade) or 76 damage.

Huh, more than I thought it would be honestly. And we could add in 2 more for Weapon focus with light blades as well.

Someone with more sleep and better statistics skill can work out how much more damage that is for coming up on a 18-20 instead of just a 20.

For a Rogue at 20th level the optimal encounter power is ... huh, they are all pretty similar... call it Hounding Strike.

3[w] + dex so

7.5 (avg 3d4) + 13.5 (avg 3d8 sneak attack) + 6 (dex) + 4 (weapon enhancement) = 31 avg damage

On a crit its 12 (max 3d4) + 24 (max 3d8) + 6 (dex) + 4 (weapon enhancement) + 14 (avg 4d6 cold from frost dagger) = 60 avg damage

Interesting. That +1/2 lvl for the warlock power is really nice huh? Anyrate the warlock power gains 33 points of damage on a crit, the rogue power gains 29 points of damage. So the Warlocks larger dice power do overpower the rogues superior sneak attack. The 4 point greater spread is almost immaterial next to the Warlock's 1/2 lvl boost though.

And I thought Warlocks were underpowered...

 

[Benly]

Well, here's a hypothetical.

Suppose a wizard paragon path is published, the "Wandlord". The Wandlord has the ability "Supreme Wand Of Precision", which reads "You can score critical hits with wands on a roll of 18-20."


Would anyone claim that a warlock/wizard who took Wandlord can't benefit from that when using his warlock powers with a wand? If so, why? If not, what's the difference between this and Daggermaster?

 

[Caliban]

Well, here's a hypothetical.

Suppose a wizard paragon path is published, the "Wandlord". The Wandlord has the ability "Supreme Wand Of Precision", which reads "You can score critical hits with wands on a roll of 18-20."


Would anyone claim that a warlock/wizard who took Wandlord can't benefit from that when using his warlock powers with a wand? If so, why? If not, what's the difference between this and Daggermaster?

According to Customer Service, it's because the Daggermaster abilities only work when making a physical attack with the dagger itself.

(Although the abilities should specify that they only work with "Weapon" keyword powers if that was the case - they don't, which is what brings up the question. )

 

[Benly]

According to Customer Service, it's because the Daggermaster abilities only work when making a physical attack with the dagger itself.

(Although the abilities should specify that they only work with "Weapon" keyword powers if that was the case - they don't, which is what brings up the question. )

Right, that's the problem. I used the exact same wording for the Wandlord ability that Daggermaster has. Customer Service has a bad habit of answering with what they think the rules ought to be and frequently contradicting themselves rather than going with actual clarification of what the rules are.

 

[Caliban]

Right, that's the problem. I used the exact same wording for the Wandlord ability that Daggermaster has. Customer Service has a bad habit of answering with what they think the rules ought to be and frequently contradicting themselves rather than going with actual clarification of what the rules are.

I wouldn't be surprised to see errata specifiying that they only work with Weapon keywork powers and attacks, or something to that effect. It seems that is what is intended.

I'm not going to get too worked up about it either way.

 

[Keenath]

Customer Service has a bad habit of answering with what they think the rules ought to be... rather than going with actual clarification of what the rules are.

My understanding is that CS answers according to the rules as intended rather than the rules as written, getting input from the designers as necessary (though perhaps not often enough).